FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Synack

I doubt they can pull 300 out of a 2.0T. Toyobaru barely squeezed out 200 out of a high compression 2.0L N/A.

A GC 2.0T pushed out 275 without D/I added.

[gaveup]

Originally Posted by Synack

Exactly, mine will look better and perform better than my Nismo 370 ever did. For about the same price as a new regular 370. Boost + body kit + wheels + suspension.

You know people got their 370Z's for under 30k right? I'm not too sure you're going to be able to hit your power mark for the cost you are assuming.

Just a quick thought, you seem rather intent on making this car much quicker, but has anyone done this to see what the car can actually handle? Being it is direct injection, I would guess if you added any sort of forced induction you would probably need a new fuel pump. Those are cheap right? VW kids only drop $800-$1000 for one.

The boxer engine used in these cars is a 12.5:1 compression right? (I think I remember hearing that before) If that is the case, I would really like to see what that motor can handle (boost/power wise). You could always go lower compression pistons/build the engine, but that seems like it would get a bit expensive.

Also, has anyone check the limitations of the transmissions? I haven't heard a mention about them, so I was wondering if it was going to be like past subarus (Looking at you 02-07 WRX) where any sort of extra power and your 3rd gear sheers it's teeth off.

[gaveup]

Originally Posted by Synack

I doubt they can pull 300 out of a 2.0T. Toyobaru barely squeezed out 200 out of a high compression 2.0L N/A.

Really not hard to get 300hp out of a 2.0T. ...you're making it sound like an impossible feat.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by gaveup

You know people got their 370Z's for under 30k right? I'm not too sure you're going to be able to hit your power mark for the cost you are assuming.

Just a quick thought, you seem rather intent on making this car much quicker, but has anyone done this to see what the car can actually handle? Being it is direct injection, I would guess if you added any sort of forced induction you would probably need a new fuel pump. Those are cheap right? VW kids only drop $800-$1000 for one.

The boxer engine used in these cars is a 12.5:1 compression right? (I think I remember hearing that before) If that is the case, I would really like to see what that motor can handle (boost/power wise). You could always go lower compression pistons/build the engine, but that seems like it would get a bit expensive.

Also, has anyone check the limitations of the transmissions? I haven't heard a mention about them, so I was wondering if it was going to be like past subarus (Looking at you 02-07 WRX) where any sort of extra power and your 3rd gear sheers it's teeth off.

We can't compare used 370s to MSRP FR-S's. And the FR-S would only need 220whp to achieve the same power-weight ratio as a stock 370Z, using 265whp for the 370, which is what they get. Either way I expect to pay obviously for a clutch, and others supporting mods. Trust me, I'm in the process of saving on my debit account and clearing out my credit account. It's going to happen regardless of price.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by gaveup

Really not hard to get 300hp out of a 2.0T. ...you're making it sound like an impossible feat.

It's not hard but I'm not forseeing Nissan willing to do that. The 2012 Subaru has like 316hp on a 2.0L Turbo, I'm pretty sure.

[Synack]

And yeah I was probably off 3-5 grand of my original statement. It'll take the cost of a new 370 plus 3-5k more to pull off everything I listed.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Synack

I doubt they can pull 300 out of a 2.0T. Toyobaru barely squeezed out 200 out of a high compression 2.0L N/A.

you must be very young

Subaru and Mitsubishi have been pushing 300hp out of 2 liters in street cars for over two decades. Bit harder now with all the fuel regulations but whatever

and Toyobaru did not barely squeeze out 200hp, they sneezed out 200 hp. Just look at the tuner market, already you've got exhaust systems that add 30 hp without tunes, intakes that add hp without tunes, and that's without anyone even touching cams yet.

they created a stock engine that is perfect for the average joe with tons of space for improvement for the gear heads.

[gaveup]

Originally Posted by Synack

We can't compare used 370s to MSRP FR-S's. And the FR-S would only need 220whp to achieve the same power-weight ratio as a stock 370Z, using 265whp for the 370, which is what they get. Either way I expect to pay obviously for a clutch, and others supporting mods. Trust me, I'm in the process of saving on my debit account and clearing out my credit account. It's going to happen regardless of price.

When I said under 30k, I meant under 30k NEW. I got mine for 28.6k new in 2010 hardly having to negotiate.

Power to weight ratio really isn't all you can go by. Gearing also is something that you need to consider along with the cars powerband. To say a 220whp frs would always beat a stock 370Z is not a correct statement. I haven't seen a turbo fr-s's powerband, but I can tell you the Z has quite a healthy one.

265whp on what dyno? Mustang? I can tell you this, my car with Stillen Gen 3 intakes, test pipes, exhaust and a tune put down 301whp on a local low reading mustang dyno. Before the tune it did 280whp (on the same mustang dyno on the same day). One could assume this car would do 320-330whp on a dyno jet. If my car did 265whp stock, I should be pretty happy i/e/tune gave me close to (if not more) than 60whp??? That doesn't sound right...

I've seen stock 370Z's put 280whp on dyno jets before...not unheard of.

Here's stillens dyno comparing stock to their intake:
http://www.stillen.com/product_files/402852~dyno.pdf

But seriously, I would love to see your car when it is done, and I want it to hit the goals you are reaching to achieve.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

you must be very young

Subaru and Mitsubishi have been pushing 300hp out of 2 liters in street cars for over two decades. Bit harder now with all the fuel regulations but whatever

and Toyobaru did not barely squeeze out 200hp, they sneezed out 200 hp. Just look at the tuner market, already you've got exhaust systems that add 30 hp without tunes, intakes that add hp without tunes, and that's without anyone even touching cams yet.

they created a stock engine that is perfect for the average joe with tons of space for improvement for the gear heads.

I'm not very young, but I don't follow the Rally car market either. Also, if I recall up until now they were using 2.5L plus turbo to accomplish ~300hp. I also would like to know why they ran such a high compression and only achieved 200hp on the 86. They could've taken a note from the 240SX where the KA ran a low compression and could easily be boosted without blowing stuff up. I have more questions than there are probably answers about this car lol.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by gaveup

When I said under 30k, I meant under 30k NEW. I got mine for 28.6k new in 2010 hardly having to negotiate.

Wow that's a steal! Probably a base though right?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by gaveup

You know people got their 370Z's for under 30k right? I'm not too sure you're going to be able to hit your power mark for the cost you are assuming.

Just a quick thought, you seem rather intent on making this car much quicker, but has anyone done this to see what the car can actually handle? Being it is direct injection, I would guess if you added any sort of forced induction you would probably need a new fuel pump. Those are cheap right? VW kids only drop $800-$1000 for one.

The boxer engine used in these cars is a 12.5:1 compression right? (I think I remember hearing that before) If that is the case, I would really like to see what that motor can handle (boost/power wise). You could always go lower compression pistons/build the engine, but that seems like it would get a bit expensive.

Also, has anyone check the limitations of the transmissions? I haven't heard a mention about them, so I was wondering if it was going to be like past subarus (Looking at you 02-07 WRX) where any sort of extra power and your 3rd gear sheers it's teeth off.

I'm pretty sure a reliable setup would cost way more than any Z model. All the things you mentioned makes perfect sense.

[Synack]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I'm pretty sure a reliable setup would cost way more than any Z model. All the things you mentioned makes perfect sense.

Minus the Nismo. MSRP on Nismo's are above 40k.

And MSRP on new base 370Z's today are like $32,500.

But I am expecting to pay ~$5000 on kit plus extras.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by Synack

I'm not very young, but I don't follow the Rally car market either. Also, if I recall up until now they were using 2.5L plus turbo to accomplish ~300hp. I also would like to know why they ran such a high compression and only achieved 200hp. They could've taken a note from the 240SX where the KA ran a low compression and could easily be boosted without blowing stuff up. I have more questions than there are probably answers about this car lol.

the KA was designed in the 90's

modern emissions and fuel consumption laws are making it difficult for car manufacturers to deliver performance for a low price.

think about it, it's 2013 and you're getting 200 factory horsepower (which could easily go up by 50% after intake, headers, exhaust, cams and a tune) that meets all of the environmental stuff out of a 2 liter.

and not charging you an arm and a leg for it either.


i'll quote Loui C.K. here..

"everything is amazing, and nobody is happy"

[Synack]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

the KA was designed in the 90's

modern emissions and fuel consumption laws are making it difficult for car manufacturers to deliver performance for a low price.

think about it, it's 2013 and you're getting 200 factory horsepower (which could easily go up by 50% after intake, headers, exhaust, cams and a tune) that meets all of the environmental stuff out of a 2 liter.

and not charging you an arm and a leg for it either.


i'll quote Loui C.K. here..

"everything is amazing, and nobody is happy"

Nice quote and it's true. But myself like many others will agree 200hp is not amazing enough.