FA20 Engine Oiling, Bearings, and Starvation

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by DocWalt

Phil was that the new or old Reimax gears you tested?

We tested the Reimax 12mm gear and not the 14mm Reimax gear. Remember though we tested the 14mm WRX DIT oil pump. It probably would have been better if Reimax copied the BRZ pump rotor design but I suspect these gears are already made.

I did look into possibly manufacturing something like that using the OEM tooth profile but it's a big investment and unlikely to cure the problem.

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

By "dry sump pressure stages" you mean accusumps? Not an actual dry sump system replacing the wet sump system?

Not sure how you made that leap from me saying, "dry sump pressure stage" to an oil accumulator.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Not sure how you made that leap from me saying, "dry sump pressure stage" to an oil accumulator.

It was a question not an accusation.

[gahooligan]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

Wish we had something we could sell other than an full engine build or an LS swap

Thicker oil helps but only marginally. Run an oil weight that suits your operating temperature. If you're a street guy running at 200F the stock weight or a little heavier is all you need but if you're a track guy running at 280F you better run as high a viscosity as you can find. There is a double edge sword there however as higher viscosity means more heat so you have to manage that also.

I've documented here what oils we run so look back but don't expect but a few psi from oil changes. I will tell you nothing stays in grade like Red Line...nothing!!!!

The solution:

The dilemma is the cost as we offer a solution and it starts at $5300. Clearly that's too much for the FRS/BRZ community as not everyone is buying our engines.

Now a complete bolt on solution I'm sure I could develop for around $5000 but a customer wouldn't have a build motor so you're still going to have to build your motor for 300+ whp.

I was trying to develop at $1500 solution but that didn't work out. It's hard for me to revisit this as I don't have an FA20 BRZ/FRS anymore for extended R&D.

If I could revisit the bolt on solution for $2k realistically how many of you would really be able to afford/justify this? It would really need a proper dry sump tank that is 8 quarts so it's going to have to be in the car and that's a major drawback for most people.

I would. Especially if it meant i could build a reliable high rpm motor with serious power.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Drakiv]

did someone say dry sump for the frs/brz????? where? gimmie gimmie gimmie!!!

[Joesurf79]

Originally Posted by Drakiv

did someone say dry sump for the frs/brz????? where? gimmie gimmie gimmie!!!

Talk to Chris at Gspeed in Cresson TX. They have set up at least one BRZ that I know of with a Dailey Enginerring dry sump setup for a local racer.

[Lightened]

Thank you

[solidsnake11]

So I have been studying the oiling system of the FA20. Here is my assumption of major problems which I have attempted to fix in my build.

First thing I noticed is the oil pick up, only engine I have found with the screen at top of oil level and its very tiny. Nice small vacuum cleaner nozzle to suck up any debris and stick (block) the tiny taxed screen.My pump showed signs of cavitation, looks like an object that has been sand blasted. Cavitation is caused from to restrictive intake of a liquid pump. I have plans to make an old school pickup with a larger screen on bottom.

Next what in the world is the tempature sensor stuck in the worse possible place right in a Z bend that blocks the main feed to the main rod bearings in the front cover. I ported and took the Z out.


Next where the front cover feeds the block its less than 25/64 drilled mine to 29/64 at feed and straight down the oil gallerie from top. Drilled oil pump cover 29/64 to match. Also plugged the oil gallery that leads to nowhere eliminating an Oring between case halves.

ok next thing drivers head feeds straight off the main feed guess where, right before the z with the temperature sensor stuck in it. for some reason they decided to make it much larger than the feed to the passenger head. Plugged with a restrictor to match passenger heads smallest restriction which is in front cover. Only other thing this side feeds is one of the tensioners which has a 1/32 oil hole in it. Bought my BRZ with oil starved spun bearings, heads seem to have run on low oil fine.

Other modifications to oiling, smoothed passages out in front cover. Oil pump epoxied small bypass hole up, cut the walls on an angle so front cover would have a mechanical stop on the plug, I can weld aluminum but I didn't want to warp the oil pump cover. Shimmed oil relief valve with 5 number 10 washers. Used Gasgacinch on pump and oil gallery plates. Update don't use Gasgacinch use Loctite 518 or equivant

Fixes with out taking engine apart, relocate the oil temperature sensor( I would probably put it in the oil pan). If sensor is relocated find a fitting to fit the temperature sensor hole and run a external line to the plug to oil galleries on top of block where all the turbo guys run there feeds from, this will bypass the Z. Please make sure to use high quality lines and check them often.

Other things that could be done for race engines, drill extra feed to center main on opposite side of oil galleries through to case bolt bore , drill from top of block to bolt bore and run external line to cover before Z, bolt will seal the bore.

If any you guys have oil pressure gauges take the temperature sensor out and plug hole and see if you get extra pressure. Let us know.


Turbo guys relocate the turbo feed from top of block your taking oil away from your rods, tee from oil pressure fitting make sure it doesn't protrude in the block any further than the stock oil pressure sensor

Pull pan off and check, clean pick up tube.

Most mods was done to the front cover so engine does not have to come out for the majority.

Thanks,
Scott

[solidsnake11]

[Milhouse86]

Long thread but a good read

[Series.Gray86]

Originally Posted by solidsnake11

So I have been studying the oiling system of the FA20. Here is my assumption of major problems which I have attempted to fix in my build.

First thing I noticed is the oil pick up, only engine I have found with the screen at top of oil level and its very tiny. Nice small vacuum cleaner nozzle to suck up any debris and stick (block) the tiny taxed screen.My pump showed signs of cavitation, looks like an object that has been sand blasted. Cavitation is caused from to restrictive intake of a liquid pump. I have plans to make an old school pickup with a larger screen on bottom.

Next what in the world is the tempature sensor stuck in the worse possible place right in a Z bend that blocks the main feed to the main rod bearings in the front cover. I ported and took the Z out.


Next where the front cover feeds the block its less than 25/64 drilled mine to 29/64 at feed and straight down the oil gallerie from top. Drilled oil pump cover 29/64 to match. Also plugged the oil gallery that leads to nowhere eliminating an Oring between case halves.

ok next thing drivers head feeds straight off the main feed guess where, right before the z with the temperature sensor stuck in it. for some reason they decided to make it much larger than the feed to the passenger head. Plugged with a restrictor to match passenger heads smallest restriction which is in front cover. Only other thing this side feeds is one of the tensioners which has a 1/32 oil hole in it. Bought my BRZ with oil starved spun bearings, heads seem to have run on low oil fine.

Other modifications to oiling, smoothed passages out in front cover. Oil pump epoxied small bypass hole up, cut the walls on an angle so front cover would have a mechanical stop on the plug, I can weld aluminum but I didn't want to warp the oil pump cover. Shimmed oil relief valve with 5 number 10 washers. Used Gasgacinch on pump and oil gallery plates. Update don't use Gasgacinch use Loctite 518 or equivant

Fixes with out taking engine apart, relocate the oil temperature sensor( I would probably put it in the oil pan). If sensor is relocated find a fitting to fit the temperature sensor hole and run a external line to the plug to oil galleries on top of block where all the turbo guys run there feeds from, this will bypass the Z. Please make sure to use high quality lines and check them often.

Other things that could be done for race engines, drill extra feed to center main on opposite side of oil galleries through to case bolt bore , drill from top of block to bolt bore and run external line to cover before Z, bolt will seal the bore.

If any you guys have oil pressure gauges take the temperature sensor out and plug hole and see if you get extra pressure. Let us know.


Turbo guys relocate the turbo feed from top of block your taking oil away from your rods, tee from oil pressure fitting make sure it doesn't protrude in the block any further than the stock oil pressure sensor

Pull pan off and check, clean pick up tube.

Most mods was done to the front cover so engine does not have to come out for the majority.

Thanks,
Scott

Any update on the effectiveness of these modifications?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Series.Gray86

Any update on the effectiveness of these modifications?

We won't reply. He got upset in some other threads and deleted most of his posts and left the forum years ago. Shame as he had lots of good info. Surprised he didn't delete his posts in this thread like he did his others.

[Eaton PSI]

Are we allowed to post ebay links in here?
I just ordered an oil pump upgrade kit. It comes with a set of 14mm FA20F gears and a special stepped back plate that fits directly to the BRZ timing cover. I will be using it on my next build.
Also, people have been talking about the hole in the rocker pivots. If you have a close look at the heads, you'll see the oil doesn't come through the pivot. Inlet side has a row of holes with tiny roll pin restrictors fitted, exhaust side has notches cut in the sides of the pivot bores. There is no path for oil to come out of the hole in the pivots. The early pivots with the bigger hole have a different profile which allows a few more degrees of rocker motion (capable of more valve lift).
The heads also have brass restrictor plugs in the oil galleries. The cam phasers get a LOT of oil, but the rest of the head is fed through tiny holes.

[demasrv]

Originally Posted by Eaton PSI

Are we allowed to post ebay links in here?
I just ordered an oil pump upgrade kit. It comes with a set of 14mm FA20F gears and a special stepped back plate that fits directly to the BRZ timing cover. I will be using it on my next build.
Also, people have been talking about the hole in the rocker pivots. If you have a close look at the heads, you'll see the oil doesn't come through the pivot. Inlet side has a row of holes with tiny roll pin restrictors fitted, exhaust side has notches cut in the sides of the pivot bores. There is no path for oil to come out of the hole in the pivots. The early pivots with the bigger hole have a different profile which allows a few more degrees of rocker motion (capable of more valve lift).
The heads also have brass restrictor plugs in the oil galleries. The cam phasers get a LOT of oil, but the rest of the head is fed through tiny holes.

Honestly, I don't know that the pump is the problem. At higher RPMs it's moving a LOT of oil. From my experience, the heads receive enough oil. Problem seems to be that the bearings don't.

[blsfrs]

While we are on the oiling subject: Has anyone done anything to their OEM oil temperature sensor to make it less intrusive?