Toyota GT86 CS-CUP tires

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Same weather? Were those race pace or qualifying laps? A sticky day vs greasy (not even damp or wet) could account for that difference, same with traffic.

All weather conditions. It is a 24h race. They had more than 100 laps of logs and they could judge what works and what is not. They had the logs from the 2012 race and they had enough time to make changes and improve the car in 2014. Everything has been documented by Gazoo, but I won't start posting all these here. You ignored already the rest of my previous post, so what's the point?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You ignored already the rest of my previous post, so what's the point?

The point was you always over generalize most things to make your point, and context matters a lot in something like lap times.


If it was hot and dry one year and raining the whole time the next year the lap times would vary by over a minute with an identical setup and driver.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by wparsons

The point was you always over generalize most things to make your point, and context matters a lot in something like lap times.

If it was hot and dry one year and raining the whole time the next year the lap times would vary by over a minute with an identical setup and driver.

I don't understand what is your issue with me. Over generalization on what? The lap times I posted are related exactly with the context of what Gazoo was mentioning for 2014. At that time the TMG cars were even more basic. It would be madness to compare both cars at same period of time. The TMG cars didn't even have aero. That's why I posted a more recent timing for the TMG car. Even TMG knows that a few years back they couldn't break the 10min barrier no matter the conditions. I think only last year they managed to do it with a Kouki car, but not on a 24h race which shows that still the car doesn't give enough confidence to push it constantly.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YacxCfyHSU8[/ame]

[ajh88]

Anyone have the spec sheet of the GR 86s?

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Check what the Gazoo engineers are saying. Not me

“Our work on the Nürburgring racecar and the 86 GRMN indicated that it was clearly preferable to stiffen up the rear of the vehicle—this was evident from the data as well, and so we implemented this in the Kouki. If the body is strong, it gives us greater freedom for tuning. If you compared the car before and after we made minor adjustments to the car, the difference was so big that you might have thought that the tires had been changed; however, this was purely a result of tuning the body and suspension, which enabled the car to use its tires more effectively.”

The Gazoo racing car they describe was running in 2014 the complete Nurburging track in 09:50 minutes. The TMG cars could not go last year better than 10:15 minutes.


So, yes small changes can make even a big difference. It depends of what you're changing and where you're changing it.

I understand, and for the most part agree with, where you’re coming from but I think you’re just A bit caught up in the semantics. Gazoo racing is technically TMG, and TMG is Gazoo. Not to mention they’re just fielding the same car built by TMG under two umbrellas, one being the TMG united team and one under Gazoo racing.

It’s like saying one teams Oreca LMP2 is better than another teams Oreca LMP2. They’re both almost nearly identical and from the same supplier but clearly one just has a better vehicle setup. These are spec classes you’re comparing.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The Gazoo racing car they describe was running in 2014 the complete Nurburging track in 09:50 minutes. The TMG cars could not go last year better than 10:15 minutes.

Just caught this now... where are you pulling those lap times from, because they're definitely not clean track times at all.


Jeremy Clarkson get a diesel jag around in a 9:59, and a mostly stock (upgraded brakes and tires) BRZ went 8:20.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Just caught this now... where are you pulling those lap times from, because they're definitely not clean track times at all.


Jeremy Clarkson get a diesel jag around in a 9:59, and a mostly stock (upgraded brakes and tires) BRZ went 8:20.

Those lap times are for the Nurburgring Nordschleife and the GP track together. The BRZ times you are mentioning (posted usually in youtube) doesn't contain even the complete Nordschleife track.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Just caught this now... where are you pulling those lap times from, because they're definitely not clean track times at all.


Jeremy Clarkson get a diesel jag around in a 9:59, and a mostly stock (upgraded brakes and tires) BRZ went 8:20.

For the N24 and some WEC events they add a large part of the GP circuit to the track extending the length to around 25k