Has BRZ value tanked or am I just being lowballed?

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nice lengthy response with no support other than your own conspiracy theory. You have no idea how and where they collect the data. Your critical thinking skills are proven poor over and over again.

I guess they are not as poor as yours.... The "email" statement was tongue-in-cheek and that was very obvious for anyone with critical thinking skills. But, as with believing everything you read on the internet is absolutely true, I guess you think the same is true for the cut and paste you did. Most DMV's do not keep sales data, they keep the net retail price paid FOR TAX PURPOSES. So if you buy a $30K car with a $15K trade-in, new or used, the DMV only has the net retail, the amount on which you pay tax, stored. If you read your cut and paste critically, (which you have not obviously done), you'll see reference to a "proprietary model". If you know anything about statistics, you'll know that data with small sample sizes (like those of niche cars), will not have reliable sales data because those sample sizes are far too small. (i.e., R-squared factor in regression analysis). That's why KBB uses the model for much of their pricing.

Perhaps with all of your great research and critical thinking skills, you can provide factual evidence to support your contention that DMV's keep all sales data and that they provide that data to KBB. By the way, the electronic sales report provided to the DMV in my case only showed the net retail paid and not the value of the car purchased. Since my dealer did not provide that data to the DMV, I really don't know how they would get it. Perhaps you, in your infinite wisdom, can divine it....

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I guess they are not as poor as yours.... The "email" statement was tongue-in-cheek and that was very obvious for anyone with critical thinking skills. But, as with believing everything you read on the internet is absolutely true, I guess you think the same is true for the cut and paste you did. Most DMV's do not keep sales data, they keep the net retail price paid FOR TAX PURPOSES. So if you buy a $30K car with a $15K trade-in, new or used, the DMV only has the net retail, the amount on which you pay tax, stored. If you read your cut and paste critically, (which you have not obviously done), you'll see reference to a "proprietary model". If you know anything about statistics, you'll know that data with small sample sizes (like those of niche cars), will not have reliable sales data because those sample sizes are far too small. (i.e., R-squared factor in regression analysis). That's why KBB uses the model for much of their pricing.

Perhaps with all of your great research and critical thinking skills, you can provide factual evidence to support your contention that DMV's keep all sales data and that they provide that data to KBB. By the way, the electronic sales report provided to the DMV in my case only showed the net retail paid and not the value of the car purchased. Since my dealer did not provide that data to the DMV, I really don't know how they would get it. Perhaps you, in your infinite wisdom, can divine it....

My cut and paste was the clear statement by KBB on how they determine the values. You don't want to believe it and that is fine but it does not make it false. Do you think there is one dude named Kelly sitting in a shabby office reading car for sale ads? They have massive resources.

Yep KBB being the premier company for car values for almost 100 years means they must be shady as hell and not even close since they have no clue what is really going on.

Please provide your source on what the proprietary model they use is. You just make an assumption with no backing.


Your reading skills are apparently the ones that are lacking since I did not make the statement about the DMV and have no contention to support.

Your idea of critical thinking appears to be to establish an opinion based strictly on your other opinions and biases and totally ignore any and all evidence placed before you.

[extrashaky]

I don't understand why people want to see some conspiracy here.

Suppose for a moment that KBB and Edmunds actually had no data on private sales from registrations, internet listings, insurance data, used car loans from financial institutions or any other sources. They would still have trade in values and dealer sales values. Trade in values are always going to be lower than private sales. Dealer sales values are always going to be higher than private sales. Or at least this will be true 99% of the time, because of economics.

Even if they just average those two figures as an estimate of private sale value in the middle, they would still get pretty close. The fact that they have additional sources of direct and indirect data on private sales only makes the estimate more accurate.

For a conspiracy to make any sense, there needs to be an incentive for the conspirators to mislead you. What incentive does KBB or Edmunds have for giving you bad pricing estimates so that you'll get pissed off and no longer use them? It's not like they make any money when you list your BRZ for $3K more than what it's worth and nobody will buy it.

[Roadcone]

where do you people having people paying 17k for 50k+ mile 2014's?

I've been seeing 2013's go for 9500-10500. 13k should get a 2015 in good shape. seen 17's for 18k...


This is a cheap car that is known to have the snot beat out of it... it's not going to hold value... hell my turbo cobalt was 24.5k brand new in 2010, i got rid of it in 2013 and it was only worth 12,700...

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Roadcone

where do you people having people paying 17k for 50k+ mile 2014's?

I've been seeing 2013's go for 9500-10500. 13k should get a 2015 in good shape. seen 17's for 18k...


This is a cheap car that is known to have the snot beat out of it... it's not going to hold value... hell my turbo cobalt was 24.5k brand new in 2010, i got rid of it in 2013 and it was only worth 12,700...

1. Documentation? I hear this, but have yet to see it.
2. Different car,different rules. My 13 year old Neon sold for the same price my wife's 12 year Prius sold for. The latter was twice as much new, give or take, and far more sought after used.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Roadcone

where do you people having people paying 17k for 50k+ mile 2014's?

I've been seeing 2013's go for 9500-10500. 13k should get a 2015 in good shape. seen 17's for 18k...

Places where lots of people live and like Japanese cars. Makes sense that values are depressed for a niche import vehicle in South Carolina.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...605136063.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto...591110024.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...590888993.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...587080779.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd...589905996.html

Supply & demand, $15k would just barely get you something acceptable around here imho, and expect a '13 with ~50k miles and a few dings. The only way to pick up a $10k car here is if it's salvage title (been crashed and the cost to fix it is worth more than the value of the car, typically they're slapped together cheaply and flipped for a profit).

I do agree with your premise though, this is a cheap car run hard and put away wet, imho the value is much higher than I expected a few years on, but I live in an area where these cars have retained value, 50% 5 years on is a totally reasonable devaluation, some areas are above this mark, some below.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...605136063.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto...591110024.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...590888993.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...587080779.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd...589905996.html

Five of those are dealers, not private sales. We were talking about private sales, the prices for which are typically lower than dealer prices.

The sixth one is very proud of his car and doesn't really seem to want to sell it.

[funwheeldrive]

Can someone please post a link for a clean 2013 twin selling for 10k or less? I find that pretty hard to believe

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Places where lots of people live and like Japanese cars. Makes sense that values are depressed for a niche import vehicle in South Carolina.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...605136063.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto...591110024.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...590888993.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...587080779.html
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd...589905996.html

Supply & demand, $15k would just barely get you something acceptable around here imho, and expect a '13 with ~50k miles and a few dings. The only way to pick up a $10k car here is if it's salvage title (been crashed and the cost to fix it is worth more than the value of the car, typically they're slapped together cheaply and flipped for a profit).

I do agree with your premise though, this is a cheap car run hard and put away wet, imho the value is much higher than I expected a few years on, but I live in an area where these cars have retained value, 50% 5 years on is a totally reasonable devaluation, some areas are above this mark, some below.

Not convinced that even SC is seeing those low prices on any sort of normal basis. I didn't deep dive but a quick search showed one for $10K and it was a salvage title. All other 13s are asking between $14K and $16K so even if the purchase price is one or two thousand below asking we are still talking pretty close to the national average. People need to look really close when they see these cars for cheap since there are a pile of salvage ones being offered and it make the value appear lower than it is.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Five of those are dealers, not private sales. We were talking about private sales, the prices for which are typically lower than dealer prices.

The sixth one is very proud of his car and doesn't really seem to want to sell it.

Yeah I didn't read into the dynamics of the conversation, only responding to the incredulity that many people are in fact paying $15k+ for used FR-S/BRZ.

Back to your conspiracy theories or whatever.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Yeah I didn't read into the dynamics of the conversation, only responding to the incredulity that many people are in fact paying $15k+ for used FR-S/BRZ.

Back to your conspiracy theories or whatever.

Extra is on our side on this.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by iggy

It's a 2014 Limited 6MT with 47,500 miles. I have it listed for $17,250. Cargurus says fair market value is $17k.
.

Fair market value is closer to $13,500
Under $15k for sure.
What offers did you get?

[gravitylover]

My 13 just popped over 100k yesterday and has the wear to prove it. The body has dings, the paint has scratches, the windshield looks like it was sandblasted and it's been driven through 5 winters so there's some rust underneath. It runs great but does need some regular maintenance done, still gets 31-33mpg on the road though, and it needs new shoes. I expect that if I were to list it it would be for under 10 and I'd probably get offered 9.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

I tried to sell my '13 for a year or so and just gave up. .

Why were you trying to sell it ?