Spec Twin?

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by Roadphantom

With all the SSC flaws I am reading about, it sounds like a good DS/CS twin on Falken could be as fast or faster. Or at least with just the camber bolts.

The TRD CS setup I ran last year might be a *little* faster than an SSC car if it had the camber and 8" wheels. (Both on Falkens) - only because the bar allowance in street allowed me to customize the cars balance just the way I wanted it. (Not something you can allow in a spec class)

I doubt it would put a DS twin over the top, but then I never tried the fancy shocks that are allowed in street. (Just ran OTS koni's)

I happen to like the SSC kit and think it works well for the money spent.

[Imp]

Tony, what happened at Crows? You let Max beat you? You had him by .5 on day one?


--kC

[blkwrxwag]

I'm pretty sure he's plotting his revenge for next week.

[G_Ride]

Max's last run on day 2 was amazing, unfortunately for Tony....

[tony_r]

I drove poorly all weekend and am just not feeling it. From a personal standpoint I'm not happy with the car and that's really affecting how I drive - similar to how I felt in the BS S2k.

Max had an amazing run on day 2, really great drive and well deserved. I wouldn't have matched him anyway.

[Imp]

Still wanna quit Tony? Lol

[tony_r]

Yep, I've got STX parts already. Fun weekend but I was already two feet out. See you guys at the Finale.

[Twinz]

Copying from the autocross video thread and quoting here to avoid further derailing that thread....

Originally Posted by steverife

My frustration isn't necessarily with the tires or the pace. My frustration is that I cannot get the car settled enough to my tastes.

Ran Sunday. Scratches were the better part of a second off ES and the better part of 2 seconds off CS. I put our local hotshoe in the car and to my dismay, he was .18 slower than me (out of the 2 runs apiece where we were riding with each other and we both coned everything all day). He described the car as a lot of fun and challenging to drive. He likes a super loose car and described the car as neutral and controllable.

I'm hoping and praying the car is better at Blytheville, Lincoln, and theoretical Toledo.... because at Dixie, zMax, and Bristol, I feel like I'm either tiptoeing around or sliding around everywhere punting cones.

The part in bold is very helpful. When I drove on the wear bars in the rain at the Ft Myers Pro, I felt like I had to choose between underdriving or overdriving and could not find a way to even get the car on the edge, much less keep it there. This was probably because the tires were effectively just water skis at that point, but the frustration was still there.

Have you driven other SSC cars and did they feel any better or worse to you? I really think there are some setup differences in play that we may not be aware of. Alignments that don't hold, binding bushings, air pressure variables etc.

I drove one SSC car that felt like the steering wheel was connected to the front tires via rubber bands and later discovered that the owners tire gauge and mine were off by a lot (5 or more PSI IIRC).

Once we set the pressures using using my gauge, it felt like my car. I'm not saying my guage/pressures were "better" but we were discussing setups that we thought were similar and getting different results...because we thought we were dealing with a 3psi difference that turned out to be more like 8psi.

[steverife]

Originally Posted by Twinz

Copying from the autocross video thread and quoting here to avoid further derailing that thread....



The part in bold is very helpful. When I drove on the wear bars in the rain at the Ft Myers Pro, I felt like I had to choose between underdriving or overdriving and could not find a way to even get the car on the edge, much less keep it there. This was probably because the tires were effectively just water skis at that point, but the frustration was still there.

Have you driven other SSC cars and did they feel any better or worse to you? I really think there are some setup differences in play that we may not be aware of. Alignments that don't hold, binding bushings, air pressure variables etc.

I drove one SSC car that felt like the steering wheel was connected to the front tires via rubber bands and later discovered that the owners tire gauge and mine were off by a lot (5 or more PSI IIRC).

Once we set the pressures using using my gauge, it felt like my car. I'm not saying my guage/pressures were "better" but we were discussing setups that we thought were similar and getting different results...because we thought we were dealing with a 3psi difference that turned out to be more like 8psi.

I have not. I doubt I'll see an SSC car outside of a national event this year.

Two people have driven my car. One thought it was pushy. The other thought it was neutral. I think both really like to manhandle a car and I tend to be pretty smooth and delicate with my inputs.

[blkwrxwag]

All my setup info is in Sportscar magazine... I don't feel I have to tiptoe at all, either on asphalt or concrete. I've driven the car in the wet as well, and it was fine. My setup is not like the Tirerack recommended settings though.

[chkltcow]

I learned this weekend that I have been running my tires too low. I actually brought a (non-contact) pyrometer out and the center of the tire was cold compared to the outside and inside. Took it up from 30psi to 32psi and the tire and car were much better. I also figured out that small adjustments to the shocks can mean a big deal. Matt had complained the car was a little pushy, so I took 1/4 turn out of the rear and all of a sudden it was great for both of us. Both of us dropped almost half a second just by getting that extra front bite on turn-in from a 1/4 turn adjustment.

On the other hand, "a little pushy" means it's no longer the drift machine it was at the Dixie and ZMax tours

[JakeRogue]

Originally Posted by chkltcow

I learned this weekend that I have been running my tires too low. I actually brought a (non-contact) pyrometer out and the center of the tire was cold compared to the outside and inside. Took it up from 30psi to 32psi and the tire and car were much better. I also figured out that small adjustments to the shocks can mean a big deal. Matt had complained the car was a little pushy, so I took 1/4 turn out of the rear and all of a sudden it was great for both of us. Both of us dropped almost half a second just by getting that extra front bite on turn-in from a 1/4 turn adjustment.

On the other hand, "a little pushy" means it's no longer the drift machine it was at the Dixie and ZMax tours

I've been running 33PSI and it has felt fantastic

[jprice130]

I'll add my two cents here and say that I have been a bit confounded with the SSC package so far this year. I've been competing with a twin since June 2012 and have run everything from C-Stock on A6s to full-prep STX on Dunlop Z2s, Hankook RS3s, and RE-71s. Despite my past experience with the twins, I'm struggling to perform with any consistency and I constantly find myself scratching my head with this car.

I race in the same region as Duck (chktlcow) and we have a good group of SSC drivers that are very open with their setups. I'm in the ballpark with everyone else on setup and my performance is just all over the place. I've been near the pace on some days and then just totally off on other days. I spent most of last year driving AWD cars, so maybe I just developed some really bad habits, but in all the setups I've run on with the twins, I've never been this inconsistent.

I guess I'll just keep getting on the horse and try to find something that allows me to be more consistent, but so far this SSC setup has been a bit humbling.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by jprice130

I race in the same region as Duck (chktlcow) and we have a good group of SSC drivers that are very open with their setups. I'm in the ballpark with everyone else on setup and my performance is just all over the place. I've been near the pace on some days and then just totally off on other days. I spent most of last year driving AWD cars, so maybe I just developed some really bad habits, but in all the setups I've run on with the twins, I've never been this inconsistent.

I guess I'll just keep getting on the horse and try to find something that allows me to be more consistent, but so far this SSC setup has been a bit humbling.

What's your benchmarK? You talk about being off pace... don't say pax. Please. Week to week, weather, conditions, minor setup changes will change your time vs someone elses time in a different class. So the 1st thing you have to stop doing is comparing yourself to other classes (*if you are).

Second, week to week, you may not be driving the course the same as someone else. I've had courses where I've driven certain elements exactly the same way that I walked them in the morning. Come to find out, that wasn't the fast way though after talking to others. So you could be driving what I call "a different course". And because courses change week to week, you may not even think that it's your driving, but try to blame the car (again... guilty and learned from it) because last event, and next event, you may be driving similar lines to everyone else.

It's a head game. What I'm saying is don't get wrapped up into what others are doing (unless you think it can help, like course elements - but then again, that's still up to you). Can you ride with others? I'm not calling you a novice, but sometimes we get so wrapped up in what we think we are doing right, sometimes we need to see that we missed something, so a ride out with someone else could help bring that to light.

Lastly, AWD to RWD is a hoot. I went from my STX wagon to a BS RX8 from '04-'05. Come to find out, I (at the time) drove my AWD wagon like a RWD car, and had it set up like that too, so the transition wasn't that hard. But having someone that went from AWD set up with a penchant for FWD driving inputs (which it can also do)? Yikes! AWD does mask some driving skills, especially with grippy tires... where you can just lift, turn and mash to rotate and power out. Requires a little more finesse with RWD.

--kC