Next Gen BRZ/86!

[Leonardo]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I am exluding @tomm.brz because he seems to have some real issue with comprehension as a non native speaker.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

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Only the voices in his head.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Leonardo

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Only comprehends sentence fragments that can be cherry picked.


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[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Again, refer to my previous paragraph about platform sharing. This is nothing new. The whole point of scalable platforms are the fact that they're, what? Scalable? naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

So if all of the measurements in a platform are variable, why have one? If they are "scalable", then you have the issue of the platform being inappropriate for the BRZ. That negates the purpose of a "platform" because you no longer have manufacturing line efficiencies. And you conveniently disregard Subaru's statement that AWD is an integral part of the platform. You seem to be force fitting your desires into an argument. In addition, the BRZ is the ONLY car in Subaru's lineup that was designed by Toyota. Why would a car designed by Toyota be built around a Subaru platform? Does Toyota have the knowledge and expertise of Subaru's platform? We know that it is the Toyota guy that is designing the new Twins, not Subaru.

You have no facts to back up your arguments. No where in the description of Subaru's Global Platform do they talk about scalability. In fact, we don't know how scalable the new platform will be or what elements will be scalable. It is just not factual. One of the major aspects of the new platform is front end crash safety. How can you get that massive front end under the low hood of a BRZ? On the other hand, it is a fact that Subaru says that AWD is part of the platform. Nowhere does it say RWD is part of the platform. It is a fact that Toyota is designing the next Twins, not Subaru.

There is a difference between using your engineering background to manufacture "fake news" regarding the next BRZ rather than taking the facts that we know and coming to logical conclusions. I do understand your arguments, but without facts, they are just fairy tales.

In the end, neither of us will know about the new BRZ until the 2021 models (which is also a fact, by the way). But it is far more probable, GIVEN THE FACTS THAT WE KNOW TODAY, that the global platform will not be used. That said, I do expect some commonalities in specific parts, infotainment systems, interior materials, etc. But in the big scheme of things, these are very small items.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Something tells me we should stop feeding the trolls, guys.


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but why : )
it has almost become funny at this point !
almost as funny as his statement of his basically stock car pulling like a 260hp Brz (be aware, this could be rise in any moment ! ) but he seems he cannot declare here in public the weight of his super fast car
All i want to know is how many kgs he shred from it : (

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by rvoll

So if all of the measurements in a platform are variable, why have one? If they are "scalable", then you have the issue of the platform being inappropriate for the BRZ. That negates the purpose of a "platform" because you no longer have manufacturing line efficiencies. And you conveniently disregard Subaru's statement that AWD is an integral part of the platform. You seem to be force fitting your desires into an argument. In addition, the BRZ is the ONLY car in Subaru's lineup that was designed by Toyota. Why would a car designed by Toyota be built around a Subaru platform? Does Toyota have the knowledge and expertise of Subaru's platform? We know that it is the Toyota guy that is designing the new Twins, not Subaru.

You have no facts to back up your arguments. No where in the description of Subaru's Global Platform do they talk about scalability. In fact, we don't know how scalable the new platform will be or what elements will be scalable. It is just not factual. One of the major aspects of the new platform is front end crash safety. How can you get that massive front end under the low hood of a BRZ? On the other hand, it is a fact that Subaru says that AWD is part of the platform. Nowhere does it say RWD is part of the platform. It is a fact that Toyota is designing the next Twins, not Subaru.

There is a difference between using your engineering background to manufacture "fake news" regarding the next BRZ rather than taking the facts that we know and coming to logical conclusions. I do understand your arguments, but without facts, they are just fairy tales.

In the end, neither of us will know about the new BRZ until the 2021 models (which is also a fact, by the way). But it is far more probable, GIVEN THE FACTS THAT WE KNOW TODAY, that the global platform will not be used. That said, I do expect some commonalities in specific parts, infotainment systems, interior materials, etc. But in the big scheme of things, these are very small items.

Dude, calm down. We are speculating about a car that does not exist. We don't even know for sure if this marriage between Toyota or Subaru will continue....or how it was consummated in the first place

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by rvoll

"fake news"

There it is. I had a hunch. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'll just leave you wallowing in your ignorance, you seem to enjoy it. The facts are out there, really easy to find out with this newfangled internet. Enjoy!






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[spikyone]

Originally Posted by rvoll

Lots of misinformed stuff

Let's address some of your misconceptions.

1. "Platform" no longer means what you think it does. It no longer means cars sharing a floorpan or even major structures, like it might have done 20 years ago. It means a standardised way of putting together the major structures, that allows vastly different vehicles to be manufactured in a similar way. I'd urge you to read this article - "kits" as mentioned are now commonly referred to as platforms (see Wikipedia's MQB page).

The high front end that you're hung up on is not an integral part of the platform; that image will just be to show what a rolling chassis based on the platform could look like. Here's the chassis from the Audi TT, compared to the VW Passat B8, both MQB based. The bulkhead/firewall/scuttle (whatever you call it) and forward lower chassis arms are the same, but that's where the similarities end.





2. We can be almost 100% certain that Subaru's platform will be scalable, because that's what car-makers mean when they talk about platforms in 2018. A highly modular way of constructing cars that allows flexibility.

3. "Manufacturing line efficiency" means being flexible enough to make what you need to make, when you need to make it, so that the line is properly utilised. Here's a photo of the production line at Nissan's plant in the UK, with a Qashqai (red) immediately followed by a Leaf (silver) and another Qashqai (blue) - the car in front of the Qashqai is a third model.



The ability of lines to produce multiple models was also referenced in the article I linked. Using standardised interfaces between the blocks used to create a car, as you see with these new platforms, actually leads to increased efficiencies because the cars are all assembled in a similar way.

4. Driven wheels are not an integral part of a platform. Let's be simplistic: take out the half shafts of your AWD, and you have a RWD. There is nothing physically preventing a RWD car being derived from an AWD platform. If you kept the pre-2010s definition of platform, it might be difficult to make a FWD platform into AWD or RWD (no transmission tunnel, like the Passat chassis above), but if a rolling chassis can handle AWD, it can handle RWD.
And the state of the art now is that any rolling chassis is just one of many possible implementations of a platform.
AWD is simply part of Subaru's philosophy. They were talking about symmetric AWD long before the BRZ existed. It does not preclude their platform being used for RWD; if anything their focus on symmetric AWD makes any such platform perfect for use in RWD. By contrast, VW's MQB is geared towards transverse engines, which make less sense for RWD - but even then it's not impossible to do.


The only thing you got right is that none of us know for certain. Your arguments that Subaru's platform can't be used, or would be inherently unsuitable, for the next-gen twins are simply wrong.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by spikyone

Driven wheels are not an integral part of a platform. Let's be simplistic: take out the half shafts of your AWD, and you have a RWD. There is nothing physically preventing a RWD car being derived from an AWD platform.

This is known already and in fact there are conversion kits that can modify a WRX from an AWD to a RWD car. His point was that you cannot have a proper sports car like this. You can do it, but it will be a compromise just to reduce costs. I uploaded a couple of pictures 2-3 pages before that show that the BRZ was really about differentiation and specialization comparing to the Impreza. How can you achieve all this with a global platform? Other car makers have gone into this direction, but with the drawbacks mentioned above. Since you are from UK, check what happened to the first generation Mercedes A-class cars when they had to transition to the MB W176 platform. They really ruined a breakthrough car and nowadays I cannot find any difference of the new A-class comparing to a VW Golf or an Audi A3.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

How can you achieve all this with a global platform?

In ways you can't possibly comprehend 🤣

In all seriousness, 4 different people have explained it well now, 3 of them citing the MQB platform, the poster child of modern platform sharing. If you still don't get it, you're being deliberately obtuse or lack the acuity to understand.




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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by spikyone

Let's address some of your misconceptions.

1. "Platform" no longer means what you think it does. It no longer means cars sharing a floorpan or even major structures, like it might have done 20 years ago. It means a standardised way of putting together the major structures, that allows vastly different vehicles to be manufactured in a similar way. I'd urge you to read this article - "kits" as mentioned are now commonly referred to as platforms (see Wikipedia's MQB page).


.

Perfect!
We have already been through all this with him many times though. If the oft repeated Subaru statement of "The SGP will be used for all vehicles from a subcompact hatchback to a seven passenger SUV and will be fully adaptable for both hybrid and EVs" is not and indication of scalable then I don't know what is. Either the sub compact or the seven passenger SUV would be pretty silly looking if they used a fixed frame for both.


The picture he keeps using is that of the 17 Impreza which is the only vehicle currently in production on that platform. Even as it stands that platform is much different that the old Impreza one that was used. It is already much lower at 5" (the stock BRZ is 4.9") and the wheelbase is not that far off at 105" (the BRZ is 101). At just over 3,000 pounds for the new Impreza it is not at all inconceivable that if you shave off the extra roof, the hatch mech, reduce the seats, cut back on the soundproofing and do away with a bunch of the other quasi luxury bits the Impreza platform as it stands now could easily come in at BRZ weight or even less. Not sure how many know but the new platform already uses some parts developed for and lifted straight from the BRZ. The electric steering is a straight parts bin application in the new Impreza. The new impreza has very little in common with the old platform and is closer to the BRZ than people realize. So a very basic scale back of the current production platform with some base changes to permit RWD only and we have the under pinning's for a sports/GT car. It could even be the higher powered version that so many seem to think would sell so well.
For about the 10th time I will state that any such vehicle would indeed NOT be what they make now but could be a very suitable successor should Subaru decide to do it on their own.


Oh and I have first hand experience in just how good and different this new platform is.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh and I have first hand experience in just how good and different this new platform is.

Those obviously aren't your cars. I don't see any snow.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Those obviously aren't your cars. I don't see any snow.

LOL Ya that was last April. If it had been this April it would have been a whole different picture!

[bcj]

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