Spec Twin?

[Lex_K]

Originally Posted by chkltcow

Sorry I get a little annoyed when I see someone condescendingly talking down to "mid pack drivers". He doesn't like it... fine.. leave... bye... but stop acting like you're better than everyone who does.

Here you go.... you can go fast for cheap: http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/foru...-Cars-For-Sale

I am so sorry you got annoyed... Was certainly not being condescending, just stating what has been said in conversations with those that I respect as drivers locally and have competed and won on national level.
I don't know you, nor do I care to and I am sure the same can be said in reverse. The only fact here is that the tire is shit. Convince yourself otherwise all you want and that everyone will have a great time because all will be driving on the same shit. It will not change that fact.
See you at Nationals.
Lex

[chkltcow]

The fast guys shouldn't care what tire they're on, because they're still gonna be fast regardless. If you're in this class, you're probably here because you know it's an even playing field and you want that type of competition, and whether we're all on Avons, Hoosiers, or 800treadwear Nankang specials.... we're still competing on equal footing. THAT's the draw. Spec Miata was on crappy Toyos for years and it sure didn't hurt the participation in that class.

[JakeRogue]

Originally Posted by chkltcow

The fast guys shouldn't care what tire they're on, because they're still gonna be fast regardless. If you're in this class, you're probably here because you know it's an even playing field and you want that type of competition, and whether we're all on Avons, Hoosiers, or 800treadwear Nankang specials.... we're still competing on equal footing. THAT's the draw. Spec Miata was on crappy Toyos for years and it sure didn't hurt the participation in that class.

That’s why I’m here


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[Lex_K]

Originally Posted by chkltcow

The fast guys shouldn't care what tire they're on, because they're still gonna be fast regardless. If you're in this class, you're probably here because you know it's an even playing field and you want that type of competition, and whether we're all on Avons, Hoosiers, or 800treadwear Nankang specials.... we're still competing on equal footing. THAT's the draw. Spec Miata was on crappy Toyos for years and it sure didn't hurt the participation in that class.

That is exactly why I am in this class. I want to know where I stand and leave my "pond" this year, which is actually a pretty large one.
I agree with everything that is said about completing on leveled ground. But we are lying to ourselves, if we say that this class would not be better if we didn't have to drive on the tire that is basically 10 years old. It's not that hard to read in between the lines that Falken is just trying to squeeze out as much money on this old product as they can before switching tooling to start producing a brand new tire. If this is what it takes to get spec class going in SCCA Solo, then so be it. I am still on board and will have those Falken stickers on my car, but it doesn't mean that I agree with this decision.

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by chkltcow

The fast guys shouldn't care what tire they're on, because they're still gonna be fast regardless. If you're in this class, you're probably here because you know it's an even playing field and you want that type of competition, and whether we're all on Avons, Hoosiers, or 800treadwear Nankang specials.... we're still competing on equal footing. THAT's the draw. Spec Miata was on crappy Toyos for years and it sure didn't hurt the participation in that class.

Sort of. Autocross is a different demographic to Road Race. Also; wheel to wheel racing is just plain fun always (see: crapcan racing). Maybe some "fast people" will come into SSC but honestly I don't see a reason why they would want to pick this class as a longtime or season long home. My guess is that they might use it as a one-stop "I won SSC" or "this class looks soft this year" and leave kind of thing.

Most of the alien multi-time national champs seem to stick with decently-to-wicked fast and fun to drive cars, with some who like doing the oddball, darkhorse kind of stuff.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by Lex_K

I am so sorry you got annoyed... Was certainly not being condescending, just stating what has been said in conversations with those that I respect as drivers locally and have competed and won on national level.
I don't know you, nor do I care to and I am sure the same can be said in reverse. The only fact here is that the tire is shit. Convince yourself otherwise all you want and that everyone will have a great time because all will be driving on the same shit. It will not change that fact.
See you at Nationals.
Lex

Originally Posted by tony_r

Sort of. Autocross is a different demographic to Road Race. Also; wheel to wheel racing is just plain fun always (see: crapcan racing). Maybe some "fast people" will come into SSC but honestly I don't see a reason why they would want to pick this class as a longtime or season long home. My guess is that they might use it as a one-stop "I won SSC" or "this class looks soft this year" and leave kind of thing.

Most of the alien multi-time national champs seem to stick with decently-to-wicked fast and fun to drive cars, with some who like doing the oddball, darkhorse kind of stuff.

Okay, I have to say this because Duck is obviously too humble to bring it up himself but...

He's won 2 Jackets in 3 years. -Paxed 55th at Nationals in 2016, and he did it on Hoosiers. He could argue that the Rivals and Stones, that some here long for, are "Fisher Price" tires for noobs that don't really want to go fast.


Now, if fast people only care about speed, then AM is for the "fast" people and everyone who competes in any other class is, to one degree or another, looking for the vehicular equivalent of a comfy blanky and a sippy-cup.

I don't think it's consistent to complain that the spec package (which all SSC competitors drive on) is a PITA to drive fast at the limit, and then turn around and argue that the setup is for noobs or drivers otherwise looking for a "safe space".

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by Twinz

Okay, I have to say this because Duck is obviously too humble to bring it up himself but...

He's won 2 Jackets in 3 years. -Paxed 55th at Nationals in 2016, and he did it on Hoosiers. He could argue that the Rivals and Stones, that some here long for, are "Fisher Price" tires for noobs that don't really want to go fast.

Great. Yep, could totally argue that any tire a tier under the other is a noob tire.

Originally Posted by Twinz

I don't think it's consistent to complain that the spec package (which all SSC competitors drive on) is a PITA to drive fast at the limit, and then turn around and argue that the setup is for noobs or drivers otherwise looking for a "safe space".

It is consistent with my line of thinking but certainly not yours. Its not fun to drive at the "limit". Not fun != PITA.

Jimmies obviously rustled with my previous comments. Sorry.

[Imp]

If they said bfg, people would complain about cost and wear. If they said Dunlop, same thing cost, wears better. If they said hankook, people would still complain. Suck it up and drive.

[steverife]

The class is "entry level" in the sense that it is very accessible if you are looking to have a competitive car. Many can have it as their only car. You can drive it to events. It is affordable. Basically you just need to be credit worthy.

As far as fast folks, you probably won't see Kiesel battle it out with Strano and Madarash, but it seems to me like there is a lot of talent....especially for a 1st year provisional class.

Duckles is a national champ, Jonathan Roberts is a national champ, you've got Savini, you've got Hayter. Cashmore has at least dabbled in the class. You've got folks like Kinch already competing in the class. I think those that try to cherry pick will be disappointed.

[imhereforthecar]

Maybe off topic here, but how are you guys able to adjust camber and toe so freely? What I mean is, do you guys use a buddy's shop or have one of the DIY kits? I don't have those kinds of connections and I am new to autocross so I am at the mercy of what shops will do/charge, and it's an event to be without my car for part of the day.

For example, today I had an alignment done but they only put -1.9 and -2.1 camber in the front. Does it matter that it is not exact? And will not having at least the recommended -3.x hurt my times much? Since I daily drive the car in the spring/summer/fall they didn't want to add too much camber as they said it would be overkill for daily driving.

Sorry so many questions.

[JakeRogue]

Originally Posted by imhereforthecar

Maybe off topic here, but how are you guys able to adjust camber and toe so freely? What I mean is, do you guys use a buddy's shop or have one of the DIY kits? I don't have those kinds of connections and I am new to autocross so I am at the mercy of what shops will do/charge, and it's an event to be without my car for part of the day.



For example, today I had an alignment done but they only put -1.9 and -2.1 camber in the front. Does it matter that it is not exact? And will not having at least the recommended -3.x hurt my times much? Since I daily drive the car in the spring/summer/fall they didn't want to add too much camber as they said it would be overkill for daily driving.



Sorry so many questions.

I’m no expert either but a regular car shop might not get you the camber specs you desire as they’re thinking about your car from a daily driven perspective. I took my car to a tuning shop and had them to my alignment.

I had my SPC camber installed in the top mount which was incorrect. Once they installed my SPC bolts in the lower mount, and moved the 14mm bolt from the bottom to the top mount, I got my -3 degrees of camber.


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[dutchman1]

Originally Posted by imhereforthecar

Maybe off topic here, but how are you guys able to adjust camber and toe so freely? What I mean is, do you guys use a buddy's shop or have one of the DIY kits? I don't have those kinds of connections and I am new to autocross so I am at the mercy of what shops will do/charge, and it's an event to be without my car for part of the day.

For example, today I had an alignment done but they only put -1.9 and -2.1 camber in the front. Does it matter that it is not exact? And will not having at least the recommended -3.x hurt my times much? Since I daily drive the car in the spring/summer/fall they didn't want to add too much camber as they said it would be overkill for daily driving.

Sorry so many questions.

IDK in what area you're in, but most people find a race-oriented car shop to do their alignment. Ask locals for recommendations.

[steverife]

Originally Posted by imhereforthecar

Maybe off topic here, but how are you guys able to adjust camber and toe so freely? What I mean is, do you guys use a buddy's shop or have one of the DIY kits? I don't have those kinds of connections and I am new to autocross so I am at the mercy of what shops will do/charge, and it's an event to be without my car for part of the day.

For example, today I had an alignment done but they only put -1.9 and -2.1 camber in the front. Does it matter that it is not exact? And will not having at least the recommended -3.x hurt my times much? Since I daily drive the car in the spring/summer/fall they didn't want to add too much camber as they said it would be overkill for daily driving.

Sorry so many questions.

I have friends that help me and have a machine and lift and stands/skid plates, but I also know a lot of folks in my area that have had national success using a lifetime alignment from Firestone.


As far as camber, it is hard to quantify how it impacts times (it is within the range of our inconsistencies), but you can feel a difference.

[Conecarver]

this 20+ year autocrosser and mid packer who has run some of the fastes classes (KM) .... Can say this to some on this thread..... FU