Next Gen BRZ/86!

[joro2]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

The rumor made Jalopnik, so prepare for a bigger wave of pointless speculation (followed by years of silence and mild upgrades).

And now R&T reports the same today too, with a few (seemingly contradictory) statements:

"Rejoice, for Toyota and Subaru are working on the next-generation 86 and BRZ. A Subaru spokesperson has confirmed this in a conversation with Road & Track today.."

And in another paragraph (re: the Japan Times 2.4L "rumor"/article):

"When reached by email, Subaru and Toyota spokespeople declined to comment on this particular rumor."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ve-more-power/

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It does not matter what Subaru parts were shared in the past. The 2017 Impreza is built on the platform that the whole Subaru line up will be using by 2020. That is an actual statement by Subaru on the real Subaru website. This will mean that either the BRZ will transfer to that platform or die. If it gets the 2.4 engine and changes to that platform it will be a whole different car than it is now and will be a BRZ in name only.

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

I believe that's incorrect. I'm pretty sure next gen BRZ will not be on the SGP.

Sorry. Should have said "may" switch to the global platform not "will". Sort of implied what I actually meant in the next line where I said "if" it did.
This whole thread is speculation anyway so at this point even the "will" wording is not incorrect. Nobody that really knows can say.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by joro2

And now R&T reports the same today too, with a few (seemingly contradictory) statements:

"Rejoice, for Toyota and Subaru are working on the next-generation 86 and BRZ. A Subaru spokesperson has confirmed this in a conversation with Road & Track today.."

And in another paragraph (re: the Japan Times "rumor"/article):

"When reached by email, Subaru and Toyota spokespeople declined to comment on this particular rumor."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ve-more-power/

Ya they just parroted the first article and forgot that it was made up in the first place.

[Deslock]

Old-school member here stopping in after a long absence to celebrate the 2nd gen FT86 rumors.

Though I switched back to the MX-5 in 2016, I have fond memories of my BRZ. From a recent miata.net post:

Originally Posted by Deslock

I happily drove a BRZ for over 4 years; it's an incredibly well sorted car (perfect driver position/seats/controls, better steering, tighter suspension, stiffer chassis, and more top-end than the ND). Every input results in an immediate and satisfying response... the BRZ is a pure sports car that offers driving dynamics bliss along with a decent amount of practicality (I only got rid of it because I had an itch to get back into a roadster).

To me, the MX-5 is me more fun overall (slightly better shifter, less weight, shorter wheelbase, punchier, open-top), but both cars are superb. if I needed more than 2 seats, I'd get another BRZ.

Glad that the FT86 will live on (the world could use more fun, reasonably priced, efficient, lightweight, RWD cars).

Regarding the engine, my BRZ’s 2.0L had plenty of output to have fun with, but rumors of the 2.4L are intriguing. If true, I wonder if Toyota/Subaru will be able to keep the weight down. My guess is they’ll stick with naturally aspirated (and my opinion is that they should).

[nikitopo]

The new 2.4lt engine is very weak on peak numbers. Even with a turbo it outputs 260-horsepower. An NA version would not be too far from the current output. If not 205hp, maybe 210hp? You would really need a square setup to go higher and this engine is not like this. It has a 94-millimeter bore and an 86-millimeter stroke and it was designed for torque, not horsepower. Maybe the haters of the torque dip will now smile, but if Subaru used this engine it would give an entirely different car. Not really a high revving sports car. I also find unlikely to develop a new engine variation the way they did it with the FB20 to FA20 convertion. Given also the discussions about the Subaru global platform and the plan to move all the models there, the BRZ is left on its own with a bit uncertainty about its future.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The new 2.4lt engine is very weak on peak numbers. Even with a turbo it outputs 260-horsepower. An NA version would not be too far from the current output. If not 205hp, maybe 210hp? You would really need a square setup to go higher and this engine is not like this. It has a 94-millimeter bore and an 86-millimeter stroke and it was designed for torque, not horsepower. Maybe the haters of the torque dip will now smile, but if Subaru used this engine it would give an entirely different car. Not really a high revving sports car. I also find unlikely to develop a new engine variation the way they did it with the FB20 to FA20 convertion. Given also the discussions about the Subaru global platform and the plan to move all the models there, the BRZ is left on its own with a bit uncertainty about its future.

they likely would put then the D4-s.. and different cams... and different manifold... and different all. You can t know which performance it will have, also i dont see a problem in reaching the same high rev as Fa20 with a 86mm stroke

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The new 2.4lt engine is very weak on peak numbers. Even with a turbo it outputs 260-horsepower. An NA version would not be too far from the current output. If not 205hp, maybe 210hp?

Obviously it's tuned for a very different application. It would be easy enough for Subaru to at least make the same hp/liter with a 2.4 NA tuned for the BRZ, so 246 N.A. horsepower right there.

You would really need a square setup to go higher and this engine is not like this. It has a 94-millimeter bore and an 86-millimeter stroke and it was designed for torque, not horsepower.

Whut? More oversquare is generally "revvier" and has more potential for higher-rpm power vs. square or undersquare. Same stroke as FA20 so really no more potential revs based on piston speeds/accelerations, but now there's a lot more potential valve area for better breathing without having to resort to greater valve lift or duration.

As you suggest, at the *very* least it would give a good boost to torque everywhere even if they kept the same heads and valves which would limit gains in high-rpm power.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by joro2

And now R&T reports the same today too, with a few (seemingly contradictory) statements:

"Rejoice, for Toyota and Subaru are working on the next-generation 86 and BRZ. A Subaru spokesperson has confirmed this in a conversation with Road & Track today.."

I'm working on a flying saucer powered by gravitonium. I spend a few seconds each day doing detailed development, but I'm still working on it. I have no idea whether my bosses will approve of it's production, or whether it will actually go to market, however. Those damn corporate accountants keep on telling me it won't be profitable, but what do they know?

Whether a new car comes to market depends on a number of factors, but large companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to make a profit. The Subaru brand is doing very well in the 4 wheel drive family car segment and how a BRZ fits in with their future corporate strategy is not clear. That said, I'm glad they make the car and I'm happy to have one.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rvoll

I'm working on a flying saucer powered by gravitonium. I spend a few seconds each day doing detailed development, but I'm still working on it. I have no idea whether my bosses will approve of it's production, or whether it will actually go to market, however. Those damn corporate accountants keep on telling me it won't be profitable, but what do they know?

Whether a new car comes to market depends on a number of factors, but large companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to make a profit. The Subaru brand is doing very well in the 4 wheel drive family car segment and how a BRZ fits in with their future corporate strategy is not clear. That said, I'm glad they make the car and I'm happy to have one.

Ummm... We need to talk. I currently hold the patent for all gravitonium powered flying saucers.

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ummm... We need to talk. I currently hold the patent for all gravitonium powered flying saucers.

Yes, I noticed that in my patent search. But I'm moving to China, so I don't care....

[himbo]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The new 2.4lt engine is very weak on peak numbers. Even with a turbo it outputs 260-horsepower. An NA version would not be too far from the current output. If not 205hp, maybe 210hp? You would really need a square setup to go higher and this engine is not like this. It has a 94-millimeter bore and an 86-millimeter stroke and it was designed for torque, not horsepower. Maybe the haters of the torque dip will now smile, but if Subaru used this engine it would give an entirely different car. Not really a high revving sports car. I also find unlikely to develop a new engine variation the way they did it with the FB20 to FA20 convertion. Given also the discussions about the Subaru global platform and the plan to move all the models there, the BRZ is left on its own with a bit uncertainty about its future.

I think you're confusing over-and-undersquare. The FA24DIT currently has a more oversquare set up than our FA20's - which is likely to mean a higher redline, and/or a rev-ier motor. The bore to stroke ratio will be greater than that of the FA20. I'm dreaming of a 240hp motor with an 8,000rpm redline...

But, it's all hearsay until its not...

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by himbo

I think you're confusing over-and-undersquare. The FA24DIT currently has a more oversquare set up than our FA20's - which is likely to mean a higher redline, and/or a rev-ier motor. The bore to stroke ratio will be greater than that of the FA20. I'm dreaming of a 240hp motor with an 8,000rpm redline...

But, it's all hearsay until its not...

Yes you are right. I was confused with the numbers and thought it was the other way around. The 2.4lt engine is over-square, but for sure it would need several changes to achieve the 240hp number.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes you are right. I was confused with the numbers and thought it was the other way around. The 2.4lt engine is over-square, but for sure it would need several changes to achieve the 240hp number.

With the same compression ratio, you'd go from 156 lb-ft to ~185 lb-ft without changing much if anything. Yay, torques!
Should be able to get to 240+hp with bigger valves (8mm larger bore gives a lot of room for that) along with modestly bigger ports, intake runners, header tubes, and throttle body. It's not rocket surgery...

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by ZDan

With the same compression ratio, you'd go from 156 lb-ft to ~185 lb-ft without changing much if anything. Yay, torques!
Should be able to get to 240+hp with bigger valves (8mm larger bore gives a lot of room for that) along with modestly bigger ports, intake runners, header tubes, and throttle body. It's not rocket surgery...

It's not rocket surgery, but all these are new developments and don't forget the new engine does not use the D4S system. Should they use this technology or not?