Various Chassis Braces?

[Roadcone]

For example the braces that I will be getting will be the ones that connect the rear subframe to the floorboards as it would limit the side to side and front to back motion of the subframe but maintain oem compliance up and down. This would retain ride quality while having a minimal effect on NVH. The whiteline subframe inserts stiffen everything up.

Another one that intrigues me is the trunk cage. one of the tS cars came with a trunk Vbrace and i've always heard of people noticing the rear deck click goes away when you brace it. in addition to added stiffness it would be great for hooking a cargo net to as a place to hold small things in the trunk in place.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by venturaII

But I'd expect that reducing overall chassis flex could result in better durability over high mileage and/or hard use.

How so? I figure it would be worse. Vibration is a big factor in fatigue.

What is the OP's purpose for their car? I track my car, and aside from some bushings i'd like to swap, I don't really feel the need for additional bracing.

[Roadcone]

This isn't a which parts should i get. It's an inquiry as to which ones work. I'm trying to help pool information.

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by Roadcone

For example the braces that I will be getting will be the ones that connect the rear subframe to the floorboards as it would limit the side to side and front to back motion of the subframe but maintain oem compliance up and down. This would retain ride quality while having a minimal effect on NVH. The whiteline subframe inserts stiffen everything up.

Another one that intrigues me is the trunk cage. one of the tS cars came with a trunk Vbrace and i've always heard of people noticing the rear deck click goes away when you brace it. in addition to added stiffness it would be great for hooking a cargo net to as a place to hold small things in the trunk in place.

Are you talking about the rear v bars from the 14r60?

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

How so? I figure it would be worse. Vibration is a big factor in fatigue.

What is the OP's purpose for their car? I track my car, and aside from some bushings i'd like to swap, I don't really feel the need for additional bracing.

Vibration certainly is, but I think outright flex is an even more obvious one. And vibration is only an issue as it translates to flex, so while you might be transferring more vibration, it could be a non-issue if it isn't at a frequency where it actually causes work hardening of the panel joints. I both track my car on occasion as well as drive it year round in terrible road conditions. I'm FAR less worried about the flex from going around a corner on a track than I am about the flex generated from smashing down a road full of potholes where driving under the posted speed limit puts you at genuine risk of being run over by the rest of the traffic.

[strat61caster]

Chassis are designed to flex in certain ways to relieve stress. Stiffening Willy nilly will just put stress where it wasn't intended to be and could cause failure much sooner than if the chassis was left as designed. There are a handful of people in the world who understand this chassis down to a tenth of a mm, the rest are just guessing.

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Vibration certainly is, but I think outright flex is an even more obvious one. And vibration is only an issue as it translates to flex, so while you might be transferring more vibration, it could be a non-issue if it isn't at a frequency where it actually causes work hardening of the panel joints. I both track my car on occasion as well as drive it year round in terrible road conditions. I'm FAR less worried about the flex from going around a corner on a track than I am about the flex generated from smashing down a road full of potholes where driving under the posted speed limit puts you at genuine risk of being run over by the rest of the traffic.

Chassis bracing can be bearable when you are by yourself, but add someone in the passenger seat (more weight on one side) and everyone will think your car rides like shit because hits on your side go to their side, and hits on their side go your side.

I only have flexible V bars and I did an off-road section of SF (it was on a street, but there were steel plates and uneven ground) and it was amazing how the chassis flexed over the bumps. I could feel all my shocks/springs working in series like a truck going over a technical off-road section. It was amazingly comfortable and if I still had my Grimmspeed, Tanabe, or Hotchkis strut bar I would’ve been crying after.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

Chassis bracing can be bearable when you are by yourself, but add someone in the passenger seat (more weight on one side) and everyone will think your car rides like shit because hits on your side go to their side, and hits on their side go your side.

I only have flexible V bars and I did an off-road section of SF (it was on a street, but there were steel plates and uneven ground) and it was amazing how the chassis flexed over the bumps. I could feel all my shocks/springs working in series like a truck going over a technical off-road section. It was amazingly comfortable and if I still had my Grimmspeed, Tanabe, or Hotchkis strut bar I would’ve been crying after.

So you made the chassis more flexible, and so you perceive an improvement in ride quality, which is logical. But what are the long term effects of doing that? That's what worries me, and why I'll take an initial hit to NVH if it means fewer squeaks and rattles down the road..

[fatoni]

I think a lot of people are confused here. Chassis rigidity is good for performance and comfort. It's why rigidity goes up for new cars in all segments. You let your suspension do the suspending. Either way, there isn't a single person on earth asking this question where a brace would be the best place to spend money on speed or comfort.

[Gunman]

Originally Posted by Roadcone

Another one that intrigues me is the trunk cage. one of the tS cars came with a trunk Vbrace and i've always heard of people noticing the rear deck click goes away when you brace it. in addition to added stiffness it would be great for hooking a cargo net to as a place to hold small things in the trunk in place.

I've looked at those, once I figured out the rear seat latches were clicking, when I'd go over speed bumps. None of the braces I looked at, seemed to triangulate in a meaningful way, most were concerned about keeping the access thru the rear seats, for cargo.

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by venturaII

So you made the chassis more flexible, and so you perceive an improvement in ride quality, which is logical. But what are the long term effects of doing that? That's what worries me, and why I'll take an initial hit to NVH if it means fewer squeaks and rattles down the road..

I’m at 101k miles and the chassis feels as firm as ever.

This isn’t an e30 bmw or NA Miata, it’s rigidity is going to last.

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by fatoni

I think a lot of people are confused here. Chassis rigidity is good for performance and comfort. It's why rigidity goes up for new cars in all segments. You let your suspension do the suspending. Either way, there isn't a single person on earth asking this question where a brace would be the best place to spend money on speed or comfort.

Too much chassis stiffness ruined cars like the Focus RS. It’s true you want your suspension to suspend you as well as possible, but we’re not on smooth race tracks 24/7 and on real world streets (with the twins), compliance is needed.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by norcalpb

Too much chassis stiffness ruined cars like the Focus RS. It’s true you want your suspension to suspend you as well as possible, but we’re not on smooth race tracks 24/7 and on real world streets (with the twins), compliance is needed.

Compliance comes from suspension

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Compliance comes from suspension

....and the chassis as well.