I think my TOB just ate **it

[WNDSRFR]

I think my TOB just ate the dust. The car has 129,000 miles and has been extremely reliable up until now. I burned the clutch a few times awhile back by doing stupid things. (I have a new clutch I bought after I burned the clutch but never installed it because once the stink cleared, the clutch returned to normal).
I was just coming off the freeway half a mile from home and the clutch petal just felt different. Just didn't feel right. Pulled into the garage and smelled the stink. Not quite the same as clutch burn stink, but something got burnt.
Now I'm afraid to drive the car fearing further extensive damage not to mention getting stranded.
Now I know the symtoms of a burned clutch but I've never burned out a TOB. The car still runs fine but I don't want to cause further damage.

So......
Ya think it's the throw out bearing or something else? Regardless, I think it's time to drive the old GTI again until I have time to install the new clutch.

[DandoX]

I think it is a likely culprit. My TOB went at like 70k. When my TOB was going on start up you could hear a whining noise. If you hear a noise at start up that comes or goes with depressing the clutch it is the TOB going. At your milage I would expect the TOB to go soon, so I would recommend replacing the clutch kit and TOB at once. Make sure you get the updated TOB part as the grease compound was improved to last longer.

This is an older thread from when my TOB started going so you can hear the noise mine made: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121318

There does seem to be some varation on the sound and when manifests. If you search other TOB posts on the fourm you can get a better idea of symptoms and harm if you keep driving.

[Mr.ac]

Yeah seems like the tob. When mine went out it cooked the ball bearings and it has a metal burnt smell to it.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

I think my TOB just ate the dust. The car has 129,000 miles .................Ya think it's the throw out bearing or something else? Regardless, I think it's time to drive the old GTI again until I have time to install the new clutch.

I'm surprised you TOB lasted that long.

Yep, I think it's a good plan not to drive it until it's fixed.

Ol @Tcoat can show you some pictures of what a over cooked TOB can look like.

humfrz

[Tcoat]

If you can smell it then it is too late to save everything. Odds are you will need to change at least the clutch and the shaft the TOB slides on. You may get away with the flywheel being OK but if things heated up enough to smell you may need to at least have it resurfaced as well. The longer you wait the worse things will get and the more you will have to replace.


It ain't pretty if you do like I did and wait too long.

[ajh88]

Good luck WNDSRFR. Mine's been making noise for some time now. 2013 at 86k. Closest I could get scheduled is two weeks so fingers crossed.

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you can smell it then it is too late to save everything. Odds are you will need to change at least the clutch and the shaft the TOB slides on. You may get away with the flywheel being OK but if things heated up enough to smell you may need to at least have it resurfaced as well.

When my TOB bit it I had to get the clutch replaced and the flywheel resurfaced.

The smell when I pulled into the service bay was impressive.

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by DandoX

I think it is a likely culprit. My TOB went at like 70k. When my TOB was going on start up you could hear a whining noise. If you hear a noise at start up that comes or goes with depressing the clutch it is the TOB going. At your milage I would expect the TOB to go soon, so I would recommend replacing the clutch kit and TOB at once. Make sure you get the updated TOB part as the grease compound was improved to last longer.

This is an older thread from when my TOB started going so you can hear the noise mine made: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121318

There does seem to be some varation on the sound and when manifests. If you search other TOB posts on the fourm you can get a better idea of symptoms and harm if you keep driving.

Doesn't the new TOB come with the clutch kit? I think it does. I have the Exedy stage one kit. I'll have to check it when I get home. I wish I bought the OEM kit instead. But I didn't.
Anyone got a new OEM clutch they want to trade for an Exedy stage one?

Now the big concern I have with changing the clutch is...
How do I get the car far enough off the ground to remove the transmission?
I was thinking about jacking the car up and putting it on cinder blocks. Then put the jack on cinder blocks and jack it up some more and add cinder blocks until it's high enough to comfortably work under. But.........

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Doesn't the new TOB come with the clutch kit? I think it does. I have the Exedy stage one kit. I'll have to check it when I get home. I wish I bought the OEM kit instead. But I didn't.
Anyone got a new OEM clutch they want to trade for an Exedy stage one?

Now the big concern I have with changing the clutch is...
How do I get the car far enough off the ground to remove the transmission?
I was thinking about jacking the car up and putting it on cinder blocks. Then put the jack on cinder blocks and jack it up some more and add cinder blocks until it's high enough to comfortably work under. But.........

Never, ever use cinder blocks to support a car. Although they seem strong they are not designed for that and can break without warning. Believe me it isn't fun when it happens.

[DandoX]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Doesn't the new TOB come with the clutch kit? I think it does. I have the Exedy stage one kit. I'll have to check it when I get home. I wish I bought the OEM kit instead. But I didn't.
Anyone got a new OEM clutch they want to trade for an Exedy stage one?

Now the big concern I have with changing the clutch is...
How do I get the car far enough off the ground to remove the transmission?
I was thinking about jacking the car up and putting it on cinder blocks. Then put the jack on cinder blocks and jack it up some more and add cinder blocks until it's high enough to comfortably work under. But.........

No a new TOB doesn't come with a clutch kit. I got my TOB separately from the clutch kit. I didn't have a way of lifting the car either and had to take my car to a great local 86 specialty shop who did a quality job. You need a good amount of room under to get the trans out and a way to support the trans as it comes out. Also expect to resurface your flywheel or buy a new one. Im sure you know but go easy on the break in period for that new clutch in anycase.

[8RZ]

Jack stands provide enough elevation to drop a transmission from under the car.

[hyper4mance]

There's lots of threads on this, which I used to research. TOB is a very common issue where the problem lies with an improper lubricant in the bearing. The revised part now has a higher temp lubricant and should be fine. Frankly, I'm shocked you got that many miles out of yours.

I just had this done 4 days ago and I had a similar issue where pressing the clutch pedal would have a grinding noise, even with light pressure on the pedal. Letting off, the noise went away and sounds exactly like Dandox's issue. If there was slipping, it was very minimal since I caught it early, car had 71k miles on a 2013. It's seen a half dozen track days or so, and maybe 30-40 autox's in addition to be daily driven. After replacing the parts below, the clutch pedal feels great again. I guess I never noticed the vague feel of a worn clutch. With your mileage, I would recommend replacing the following while the trans is apart:

1. TOB if it is not included with the clutch kit, some say the revised OEM part is still preferred. Forgot the name of the other bearing, but replace that too while you are at it.
2. Clutch/pressure plate - I went with an exedy OEM since this is not my track car.
3. resurface OEM flywheel or go lightweight if you like, depends on your purpose of the car. Note going too light will make it more difficult to drive if you aren't used to it.
4. Trans fluid will need to be replaced
5. OEM clutch fork tends to be weak. Verus forged clutch fork and Clutch Fork Pivot is a good idea.
6. Rear Main Seal
7. whiteline positive shift kit while you are down there and diff mount. I have noticed there is more whining/whirring after installing this, not a surprise.

Unfortunately I have another issue, P301 code I'm pretty sure its the DI seals. 1st gen problems...

[WNDSRFR]

OK so it's definitely beyond any doubt whatsoever that it is the TOB. I drove the car today about 20 feet to put it on ramps and every time I depress the clutch petal you can hear it grinding and starting to smell. I'm really lucky it failed so close to home. So the damage should be minimal. It's also amazing how it happened with no warning at all. It was perfect for 129,000 miles, then it failed. Just like that. Oh well.
As far as American cinder blocks vs Chinese jack stands goes, I think I'm leaning towards the jack stands. If it doesn't go high enough maybe I can put the jack stands on solid concrete blocks. I don't know. We'll see how it goes.
I don't need to be in a hurry, I still have my GTI and it's still a lot of fun to drive.

[Beachin86]

Originally Posted by DandoX

No a new TOB doesn't come with a clutch kit. I got my TOB separately from the clutch kit. I didn't have a way of lifting the car either and had to take my car to a great local 86 specialty shop who did a quality job. You need a good amount of room under to get the trans out and a way to support the trans as it comes out. Also expect to resurface your flywheel or buy a new one. Im sure you know but go easy on the break in period for that new clutch in anycase.

Correction: A new TOB DOES come with Exedy kits. I bought an OEM clutch kit when my TOB went bad, and there was a new TOB included.

HOWEVER: DO. NOT. USE. EXEDY'S. TOB. You'll want to buy the newer one from Subaru or Toyota. They knowingly upgraded this part when this issue became common. Throw away the one that comes with the kit.