Spec Twin?

[steverife]

Originally Posted by jprice130

It was nice to meet you Steve and glad to hear you enjoyed coming out to ZMAX. There will be at least 4-5 of us running locally in SSC at ZMAX this year, so I hope you can join us for more events later this season (of course, that goes for anyone else in the SE too!). A few of us will be making the trip to Bristol in July, so we'll see you then as well.

Yeah. It was great to meet you and everyone else. NC has a great group. I'm very jealous. Not sure if I'll drive through the mountain again this year (unless there is a perfect storm of 2 day event, nice weather, and me wanting to autocross), but I'll definitely be at Bristol.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by tony_r

It totally is and that's what I said a few pages back. Setting up this car is backwards. Our setup on BFGs was totally opposite. The Falkens don't take big movements well, or multiple inputs. Hard rear bar keeps it off the rear stops for the most part, big rebound softens the movement all around. Works on asphalt well.

Alright, fair enough, I appreciate the info! I'll have to give it a try and try some different settings.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by tony_r

It totally is and that's what I said a few pages back. Setting up this car is backwards. Our setup on BFGs was totally opposite. The Falkens don't take big movements well, or multiple inputs. Hard rear bar keeps it off the rear stops for the most part, big rebound softens the movement all around. Works on asphalt well.

That's what I felt this past Sat. The car had severe understeer with the Falkens where it would rotate nicely with other tires (Nexens). Stiff rear bar, while unconventional, seems like the way to go for Met Life Stadium (lot E) at anything over 60*. Will test in 2 weeks. Video below has the rear bar at soft.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnXltEUSQKg&t=0s&list=PLs_KdUh4o-ED9i9rL4FVfphxL_iUl_wt5&index=2"]3/31/18 NNJR - Terminal Understeer - YouTube[/ame]

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

That's what I felt this past Sat. The car had severe understeer with the Falkens where it would rotate nicely with other tires (Nexens). Stiff rear bar, while unconventional, seems like the way to go for Met Life Stadium (lot E) at anything over 60*. Will test in 2 weeks. Video below has the rear bar at soft.

Some of your issues stem from two inputs at once. You're doing a lot of braking and turning, the Falkens do not do that. They respond better to braking in a straight line, pause, turn in - or lifting when the brake is unnecessary.

Soft/soft is indeed bias understeer, though. You see that in the few areas where you just lock a steering angle and push.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by tony_r

Some of your issues stem from two inputs at once. You're doing a lot of braking and turning, the Falkens do not do that. They respond better to braking in a straight line, pause, turn in - or lifting when the brake is unnecessary.

I was trailbraking a lot to get some weight to the front, thinking that it would help with the understeer. But the car pushed no matter what, well anything short of parking the car.

[steverife]

I do feel like the car got progressively more pushy as I got heat in the tires on a day where I'm wearing jeans and a thermal. I have no idea how I'm going to approach mitigating that at a summer Pro.

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by steverife

I do feel like the car got progressively more pushy as I got heat in the tires on a day where I'm wearing jeans and a thermal. I have no idea how I'm going to approach mitigating that at a summer Pro.

Could be more of a surface thing than a tire thing. We hot-lapped the Falkens at a TNT on a cool day and they didn't really care much. Concrete surface. Ended up dropping time as the day progressed with no tire-related issues.

Yesterday had a 80+ day on asphalt, three drivers and no spraying on a fresh set. No fucks given.

Have yet to try a hot day and concrete, that's probably when they start to show issues.

[Lex_K]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

I was trailbraking a lot to get some weight to the front, thinking that it would help with the understeer. But the car pushed no matter what, well anything short of parking the car.

Car felt a lot better with with rear bar at stiff on Sunday. Saturday event was painful. Could not hold throttle on transitions, which was killing me. I did have shocks stiffer that day than what I ran before, so that the car did like.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by steverife

Getting any wheelspin/wheelhop at full stiff, hard bar on the rear?

I tried it at Charlotte and while I loved the balance, I thought I was going to break the car coming out of turns. I definitely like the rear bar at hard, though.

Could what I was getting possibly be the computer interfering?

Did you notice if the slip light on the dash flashed when this was happening? The diff-assist flashes the light on the dash when it kicks in.

With 4 national events in 5 weeks, I have not really experimented with setup. I went soft on the rear sway bar specifically to try and avoid the diff-assist and just compensated with shock settings, alignment, and driving style.

The soft/soft setup we're running is biased toward under-steer, but it feels a lot closer to neutral than what I'm hearing from some of the other drivers that have tried the same sway bar settings. Our setup is close-enough to neutral that over-steer is still right there, just waiting for me to get too optimistic with my right foot. Since shock adjustments are pretty easy to change/experiment with and has not fixed the problem for some, I'm guessing it has something to do with toe settings.

All that being said, my diff-assist aversion may be unfounded. This is the first time I have heard that the stiff setting on the rear bar *might* have correlated to the diff-assist kicking in. (and it sounds like a lot of people are running the rear bar on stiff)

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by steverife

Getting any wheelspin/wheelhop at full stiff, hard bar on the rear?

I tried it at Charlotte and while I loved the balance, I thought I was going to break the car coming out of turns. I definitely like the rear bar at hard, though.

Could what I was getting possibly be the computer interfering?

Ah I missed this - so at out concrete site we do get some hop on the rear. We don't run full stiff shocks at this site, I think we're at 1.25 from soft. Any more and we get hop out of turn arounds/sweepers or where ever there are expansion joints/bumps.

No computer junk though. Have never had that issue.

[steverife]

Originally Posted by Twinz

Did you notice if the slip light on the dash flashed when this was happening? The diff-assist flashes the light on the dash when it kicks in.

With 4 national events in 5 weeks, I have not really experimented with setup. I went soft on the rear sway bar specifically to try and avoid the diff-assist and just compensated with shock settings, alignment, and driving style.

The soft/soft setup we're running is biased toward under-steer, but it feels a lot closer to neutral than what I'm hearing from some of the other drivers that have tried the same sway bar settings. Our setup is close-enough to neutral that over-steer is still right there, just waiting for me to get too optimistic with my right foot. Since shock adjustments are pretty easy to change/experiment with and has not fixed the problem for some, I'm guessing it has something to do with toe settings.

All that being said, my diff-assist aversion may be unfounded. This is the first time I have heard that the stiff setting on the rear bar *might* have correlated to the diff-assist kicking in. (and it sounds like a lot of people are running the rear bar on stiff)

I don't think I got any dash lights, but I'm not sure I would have noticed.

First instinct was wheelhop and the car was rotating, so that was probably the case. I just kind of thought of the diff-assist thing driving home.

[BoxCarRacer]

Great job to Michael Lawson bringing home the win in Charlotte!

[chkltcow]

I posted this in the FB group but I know some of you aren't there....

To throw a little more data at our PAX situation.... this weekend we had a fairly sparsely attended event because everyone ditched our remote site for the Driveautox event in Charlotte. With some spare time on our hands, I let Jason Fetchko jump in my car to take some "Seat Time Only" runs and get some more thoughts.

Jason's best time in my car was 44.384 to my 43.949... so I got him by about 0.4. He still PAXed me by around 0.7 seconds in his DS car. His PAX time in my car was 35.773 compared to his PAX time in his car of 34.772. Almost exactly one second off on a decently short course.

If anyone else has a chance to do some similar testing at events and get some data to throw at Rick Ruth.... I say go for it. Pretty sure we're still boned for this year which sucks for Match tours or if you have to rely on a PAX class locally to have anyone to run with, but maybe it'll be more realistic next season if we help put data behind results.


Also I figured out why my car was so loose and borderline evil in Charlotte..... turns out when you make a quick shock adjustment, you should make sure you turn both knobs the same direction. As it was, I turned one of the rears down half a turn and the other up half a turn. Oops.

[Twinz]

David Marcus and I have driven each other's cars on our test n tune course. We both end up in the noise with each other's times when we do this.

According to the pax, we both become much better drivers when we drive ANYTHING other than an SSC car. He paxed me by 1.8 at our Feburary local and 1.7 at yesterday's local.