Used FRS vs. new BRZ

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Decep

ND has a better feeling clutch and a much smoother transmission. I love the notchier feel of the twins though.

Same here. I will take notch over mush any day. I’ve never understood how people prefer mush (Porsche, BMW) over notch (S2000, Twins). Clutch feel does kind of blow on the Twins though but most of that can be fixed with the spring delete.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

Ok, went yesterday for test drives. Went to Subaru, only model they had was tS on showroom floor and wouldn’t let me test since I was honest about not buying yet. Hell, they had doors locked, I got them to unlock. No limited or premium. Went to Mazda and guy taught me stick since I basically had one lesson a few months ago. Loved it, but wife not really feeling RF and I’m debating on ST with top issues.

Honestly, the BRZ did feel claustrophobic but I’m thinking it was because I didn’t take much time since I was pissed that there was nothing to test. I’m going to another Subaru dealership soon and Toyota to hopefully drive 86. I’d like to drive MT and AT after reading about changes made to AT in ‘17. What I really want to find out is how’s clutch and shifter feel for rookie compared to ND?

More changes were made to the MT than the AT though. The MT has +5HP but even without the extra power the MT is faster due to better gearing. You are new to MT so don’t let that lean you towards an AT. This is a decision you will live with for the life of the car. It’s worth it to give the MT (on any of the cars you are looking at) an honest try.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

Ok, went yesterday for test drives. Went to Subaru, only model they had was tS on showroom floor and wouldn’t let me test since I was honest about not buying yet. Hell, they had doors locked, I got them to unlock. No limited or premium. Went to Mazda and guy taught me stick since I basically had one lesson a few months ago. Loved it, but wife not really feeling RF and I’m debating on ST with top issues.

Honestly, the BRZ did feel claustrophobic but I’m thinking it was because I didn’t take much time since I was pissed that there was nothing to test. I’m going to another Subaru dealership soon and Toyota to hopefully drive 86. I’d like to drive MT and AT after reading about changes made to AT in ‘17. What I really want to find out is how’s clutch and shifter feel for rookie compared to ND?

Do not compromise for an AT if MT has your interest. The cars are quite different feeling. If you have someone who knows MT well, I'd say enlist them for some help and get them to test drive the cars after you and ask their opinion of feel between the two. Everyone in my family can drive MT and I did just this, the more advanced people say that the MT feels like a different car compared to the AT and from test driving the AT 2017+, I feel the same.

When you do end up getting a car, hopefully as MT, the best tip I received while learning was to go to a hill and just bounce the car up and down without really going anywhere, you'll find the friction point of the clutch really fast.

An Focus ST??? That's quite a different car.

[Coachrhino11]

Thx guys, will do. As far as clutch being crappy, is there no biting point like on Nd? ND is about 2 inches or so as you start to release. I’m hoping to test 86 in next couple days. Shifter on twins sounds more fun if you are going to row gears.

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Do not compromise for an AT if MT has your interest. The cars are quite different feeling. If you have someone who knows MT well, I'd say enlist them for some help and get them to test drive the cars after you and ask their opinion of feel between the two. Everyone in my family can drive MT and I did just this, the more advanced people say that the MT feels like a different car compared to the AT and from test driving the AT 2017+, I feel the same.

When you do end up getting a car, hopefully as MT, the best tip I received while learning was to go to a hill and just bounce the car up and down without really going anywhere, you'll find the friction point of the clutch really fast.

An Focus ST??? That's quite a different car.

I live around nothing but huge hills out where I live. So many California people have moved here and say it reminds them of Cali because hills, trees, water where we live....no ocean and hot ass heat though!

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

Thx guys, will do. As far as clutch being crappy, is there no biting point like on Nd? ND is about 2 inches or so as you start to release. I’m hoping to test 86 in next couple days. Shifter on twins sounds more fun if you are going to row gears.

People complain about this clutch because of the clutch spring. They think it gives no feedback and people take out the spring and call it a free upgrade.. I don't have an issue with the clutch in the 86 and believe it gives adequate feedback, but not in the form of just the pedal.

You might be putting too much thought into it also, the clutch isn't a math equation, it's easier to just go with what feels better because I'm sure a vast majority of the older guys share the idea of the clutch feeling awkward or confusing, thus resorting to clutch spring removal.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

I live around nothing but huge hills out where I live. So many California people have moved here and say it reminds them of Cali because hills, trees, water where we live....no ocean and hot ass heat though!

So lots of space to learn then lol, don't go too steep, you just need something for your car to roll back, not at an alarming speed, but something that will wake you up if you don't hit the brakes or get that clutch working.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

People complain about this clutch because of the clutch spring. They think it gives no feedback and people take out the spring and call it a free upgrade.. I don't have an issue with the clutch in the 86 and believe it gives adequate feedback, but not in the form of just the pedal.

You might be putting too much thought into it also, the clutch isn't a math equation, it's easier to just go with what feels better because I'm sure a vast majority of the older guys share the idea of the clutch feeling awkward or confusing, thus resorting to clutch spring removal.

I am always torn about my feelings on this clutch. For day to day driving (especially in heavy traffic) I really do appreciate the light pressure needed. When I want to play I would like a little more feed back. If I could replace the spring with a remotely adjustable solenoid or something it would be great.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am always torn about my feelings on this clutch. For day to day driving (especially in heavy traffic) I really do appreciate the light pressure needed. When I want to play I would like a little more feed back. If I could replace the spring with a remotely adjustable solenoid or something it would be great.

Same thoughts here. I like the light feeling when I'm in stop and go every day for an hour in the morning and hour in the afternoon. But I like the more linear feel without the spring. When I'm not lazy I want to reconnect my spring and see if I like it better. I didn't really have that big of a problem when the spring was connected.

[joro2]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

Thx guys, will do. As far as clutch being crappy, is there no biting point like on Nd? ND is about 2 inches or so as you start to release. I’m hoping to test 86 in next couple days. Shifter on twins sounds more fun if you are going to row gears.

It's not so much “light” feeling to me as it is somewhat vague, in that the bite-point is seemingly much higher up in the pedal travel than other vehicles I’ve driven; i.e. the stock pedal travels a fairly long way, nothing.... nothing.... then near the top of the travel it suddenly grabs. Took me a while to adjust to at first but now I kind of oddly prefer/like it.

[Ultramaroon]

It's not the spring. I've given up trying to convince people in the more popular threads. The spring is an easy target for the hatred.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77390

[Adam_L]

Spring delete ? You don't mean that aftermarket spring that 86speedfactory sells ?
My clutch / manual is stock. It feels fine to me. I drive another manual car (the last 11 years) , so is there something extra special (feeling) that I should be experiencing out of a clutch pedal ?

[Decep]

Originally Posted by ermax

Same here. I will take notch over mush any day. I’ve never understood how people prefer mush (Porsche, BMW) over notch (S2000, Twins). Clutch feel does kind of blow on the Twins though but most of that can be fixed with the spring delete.

nd is definitely not mush.

more of like a really smooth rifle bolt. this is from driving my mom's @ 3000 miles, whereas my 30K transmissions feels barely broken in.

as much fun as i have puttering around town in the ND, its a non starter since that cockpit is a joke and im barely 6' tall. that transmission hump also takes up half the freakin' passenger's foot room. much prefer the NC interior. if OP is 6'2" and considering the ND (correct me if im wrong?) he's either all torso or not really 6'2" lol.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Decep

nd is definitely not mush.

more of like a really smooth rifle bolt. this is from driving my mom's @ 3000 miles, whereas my 30K transmissions feels barely broken in.

as much fun as i have puttering around town in the ND, its a non starter since that cockpit is a joke and im barely 6' tall. that transmission hump also takes up half the freakin' passenger's foot room. much prefer the NC interior. if OP is 6'2" and considering the ND (correct me if im wrong?) he's either all torso or not really 6'2" lol.

Sorry if I didn't word that well.. I wasn't implying the ND was mush.