Miata to BRZ

[Prodigalson]

My '99 Corvette (FRC) was surprisingly fuel efficient..I drove to Raleigh/Durham NC and back (from Michigan). Averaged 34 mpg over the entire trip. 1/4 mile time on all seasons was 12.98 seconds. Definitely ranks up there with my MSM and the FRS in terms of fun/efficient/nimble...Plus it had a lot more power, lol...

[Rai-zero]

I drove both new MX5 and two different BRZ in a 2 day period one BRZ was a used 2015 and one BRZ was new 17 with PP, the MX5 was a touring, all with 6MT. I am a former owner of S2000 for 6 years as well.

My impressions

S2000 was quicker and feels quicker of the three (obviously) my only mods was better wheels/tires and shorter gearing plus CAI.

I feel BRZ needs a bit more rubber or better tire, and could use some more power but all three cars are adequately fast.

I think all three can be equally fun to drive.

Big advantage to BRZ:
Room, driving position, room, longer wheelbase (feels more stable), fixed roof, safety. I love vert for around 60 great days of the year the other 300 days rather have a fixed roof. Any car that I buy if it’s possible is without sunroof because I never use them, only feel like vert when the temp is 60-85 degrees and not on HW.

Overall if I fit, I’d buy a MX5 because it’s lighter and no TQ dip, it’s just too small for me.

I loved the S2000 but wish it was a tad larger, the BRZ is a tad larger inside and the MX5 is a tad smaller so overall like the BRZ best of trio.

I believe BRZ should be the safest (crash tests, crumple zones, roll over, airbags etc..) and has more features than the S2000 for the same weight stability control, heated seats, more airbags, navigation, Apple CarPlay (if get the 2018).

Overall I’m happy if I was able to own any of the trio but the BRZ is the largest which is my big complaint regarding the other two.

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

I drove both new MX5 and two different BRZ in a 2 day period one BRZ was a used 2015 and one BRZ was new 17 with PP, the MX5 was a touring, all with 6MT. I am a former owner of S2000 for 6 years as well.

My impressions

S2000 was quicker and feels quicker of the three (obviously) my only mods was better wheels/tires and shorter gearing plus CAI.

I feel BRZ needs a bit more rubber or better tire, and could use some more power but all three cars are adequately fast.

I think all three can be equally fun to drive.

Big advantage to BRZ:
Room, driving position, room, longer wheelbase (feels more stable), fixed roof, safety. I love vert for around 60 great days of the year the other 300 days rather have a fixed roof. Any car that I buy if it’s possible is without sunroof because I never use them, only feel like vert when the temp is 60-85 degrees and not on HW.

Overall if I fit, I’d buy a MX5 because it’s lighter and no TQ dip, it’s just too small for me.

I loved the S2000 but wish it was a tad larger, the BRZ is a tad larger inside and the MX5 is a tad smaller so overall like the BRZ best of trio.

I believe BRZ should be the safest (crash tests, crumple zones, roll over, airbags etc..) and has more features than the S2000 for the same weight stability control, heated seats, more airbags, navigation, Apple CarPlay (if get the 2018).

Overall I’m happy if I was able to own any of the trio but the BRZ is the largest which is my big complaint regarding the other two.

I’ll be testing both back to back next week along with Fiat Abarth 124 and 370z. I drive my Jeep topless and even doorless whenever I get chance. If you have heated seats, top down in mornings are great! Safety? I’ll be going when it’s my time. Not buying any of these cars forgave or CarPlay personally.

[TheRoops]

Originally Posted by Rai-zero

I drove both new MX5 and two different BRZ in a 2 day period one BRZ was a used 2015 and one BRZ was new 17 with PP, the MX5 was a touring, all with 6MT. I am a former owner of S2000 for 6 years as well.

My impressions

S2000 was quicker and feels quicker of the three (obviously) my only mods was better wheels/tires and shorter gearing plus CAI.

I feel BRZ needs a bit more rubber or better tire, and could use some more power but all three cars are adequately fast.

I think all three can be equally fun to drive.

Big advantage to BRZ:
Room, driving position, room, longer wheelbase (feels more stable), fixed roof, safety. I love vert for around 60 great days of the year the other 300 days rather have a fixed roof. Any car that I buy if it’s possible is without sunroof because I never use them, only feel like vert when the temp is 60-85 degrees and not on HW.

Overall if I fit, I’d buy a MX5 because it’s lighter and no TQ dip, it’s just too small for me.

I loved the S2000 but wish it was a tad larger, the BRZ is a tad larger inside and the MX5 is a tad smaller so overall like the BRZ best of trio.

I believe BRZ should be the safest (crash tests, crumple zones, roll over, airbags etc..) and has more features than the S2000 for the same weight stability control, heated seats, more airbags, navigation, Apple CarPlay (if get the 2018).

Overall I’m happy if I was able to own any of the trio but the BRZ is the largest which is my big complaint regarding the other two.

Also consider a head unit change. My BRZ came with an OEM setup so I was driven to switch out the head unit for sound, but as much as I find the sound amazing, the phone integration is something I use a lot. The Kenwood units are worth the upgrade price.

[joro2]

Anyone else read this article today?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ws&date=031418

Basically another journalistic dis’ on the FA20 motor and a nod to the MX-5’s Skyactiv.

[Adam_L]

The picture of that red Miata... nice body roll !! Maybe it was just the camera angle, that accentuated the dive angle?!

[joro2]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

The picture of that red Miata... nice body roll !! Maybe it was just the camera angle, that accentuated the dive angle?!

Heh, I noticed that in the photo, the Miata leaning far over on the turn and the 86 basically neutral, almost no lean.

I have mixed feelings* about the engine, but it certainly is one of the more interesting designs available for the price -- i.e. flat-four/opposing pistons, naturally aspirated, direct and port injection, variable valve timing, and amazingly lightweight, low to the ground and pushed back in the engine bay. Also, it looks damn good (e.g. flake red aluminum intake vs. those awful plastic engine covers all too common these days).

Not that interesting designs always translate into great driving experiences, but part of the fun *for me* (beyond the driving) is understanding the engineering that went into a machine.

*Regarding my "mixed feelings", sometimes the motor does feel "slow", I still can't decide if it actually is underpowered or if the chassis is just so neutral and predictable that anything short of another 50+ HP and/or lb'torque wouldn't also feel "slow". Living in South Florida where it's (way too often) hot & humid the engine seems as if it doesn't like the heat; definitely a better/smoother performer on cooler days, and I've never owned a new vehicle before where the hood and front side fenders got as hot as they do on the BRZ, hot enough after some drives to fry an egg. The engine seems to need a bigger radiator, or maybe just more under the hood venting.

[joro2]

Originally Posted by joro2

the engine seems as if it doesn't like the heat; definitely a better/smoother performer on cooler days, and I've never owned a new vehicle before where the hood and front side fenders got as hot as they do on the BRZ, hot enough after some drives to fry an egg.

BTW, is this common/normal?

I've never seen the actual temperature gauge read hot (it always sits just below the 1/2 mark), but damn the aluminum hood and sheet metal side fenders get hot. I also seem to have lost a bit of coolant (less than 1/3 quart) in the first few thousand miles.

My old 1991 NA MX-5 (which I had from new and kept until a few years ago, and drove in all kinds of climate extremes, etc.) never heated up like the BRZ does.

[Lantanafrs2]

My car felt slow as hell in hot humid weather. Even with e85 I can feel a difference in part throttle performance depending upon weather conditions.

[Lantanafrs2]

The only way to improve it is with tune/header/e85. Those mods can be done for a grand with smart shopping. Fix the torque curve and things change substantially. F.i.offers big gains for a really big price.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by joro2

*Regarding my "mixed feelings", sometimes the motor does feel "slow", I still can't decide if it actually is underpowered or if the chassis is just so neutral and predictable that anything short of another 50+ HP and/or lb'torque wouldn't also feel "slow". Living in South Florida where it's (way too often) hot & humid the engine seems as if it doesn't like the heat; definitely a better/smoother performer on cooler days, and I've never owned a new vehicle before where the hood and front side fenders got as hot as they do on the BRZ, hot enough after some drives to fry an egg. The engine seems to need a bigger radiator, or maybe just more under the hood venting.

It would be great if a Toyota/ Subaru tech could chime in on this. What I've experienced with several Toyota engines over the years is that they do a great job with engine heat dissipation . This should lead to longer service life of the engine , a cooler running engine when in operation.... thus longer longevity of the engine in general. At the same time, depending on the Toyota engine (which for the most part this isn't a Toyota engine, FA20) most engines seems detuned , under powered given how many cylinders / liters , maybe by 5-10% . The main good thing that can come from this is a longer lifespan of the engine, relatively speaking. They could squeeze out a bit more HP , but at the expense of long term durability.

When Toyota/ Subaru developed this car, I wonder if this topic went into the board room, and how it was decided to be handled /executed at the engineering level / production.

[NCtoBRZ]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

The picture of that red Miata... nice body roll !! Maybe it was just the camera angle, that accentuated the dive angle?!

It’s not the camera angle, Miatas are notorious for excessive body roll and the ND may have the most of any generation... this was a big part of why I chose the BRZ over the ND (and the steering is WAY better in the BRZ).

Originally Posted by joro2

BTW, is this common/normal?

I've never seen the actual temperature gauge read hot (it always sits just below the 1/2 mark), but damn the aluminum hood and sheet metal side fenders get hot. I also seem to have lost a bit of coolant (less than 1/3 quart) in the first few thousand miles.

My old 1991 NA MX-5 (which I had from new and kept until a few years ago, and drove in all kinds of climate extremes, etc.) never heated up like the BRZ does.

The aluminum hood and fenders are very lightweight and thin and the design if the boxer engine places the hot heads and manifold very close to the fenders and hood so it’s expected that some heat will be felt around those areas. It’s not unusual for the coolant level to drop a small amount on a new car as any potential air bubbles in the system work their way out. Like you said, the temps stay fine, so stop worrying about it.

[joro2]

Originally Posted by NCtoBRZ

The aluminum hood and fenders are very lightweight and thin and the design if the boxer engine places the hot heads and manifold very close to the fenders and hood so it’s expected that some heat will be felt around those areas.

What if the fender garnish/canards were actually functional, real side vents, i.e. would that have helped with engine's under the hood heat dissipation? The side trim's one of the few pieces of body design I dislike-- I disliked it even more until I read in the '17 BRZ brochure that they're *aerodynamically* functional (gotta wonder if that's for real or just ad copy hype/promotional spin).

[NCtoBRZ]

Originally Posted by joro2

What if the fender garnish/canards were actually functional, real side vents, i.e. would that have helped with engine's under the hood heat dissipation? The side trim's one of the few pieces of body design I dislike-- I disliked it even more until I read in the '17 BRZ brochure that they're *aerodynamically* functional (gotta wonder if that's for real or just ad copy hype/promotional spin).

I doubt that it would make much difference if those small garnish pieces were vented... it’s really a non-issue, just don’t take a nap on your hood while it’s hot.