ACE Header Questions...

[nico_rsx]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Who said I am comparing with my car? I just don't like someone to say that you can get a +40-50 hp gain just with a header and a tune. It is unrealistic. If you go with E85, then yes you are much closer. However, if you want to do it right then you the need a flex fuel kit and be lucky enough to find always a gas station.

I don't think he said you gain 40-50 hp with a header+tune, he only showed a graph.
But if we assume the graph is correct, he actually gained 30hp@peak power (without E85), and almost 40hp at 4500rpm (still without e85).

Like Kodename47 I am also interested to know why not keep the 2017 FD?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by nico_rsx

I don't think he said you gain 40-50 hp with a header+tune, he only showed a graph.
But if we assume the graph is correct, he actually gained 30hp@peak power (without E85), and almost 40hp at 4500rpm (still without e85).

Yes peak power is +30hp (without E85), but it is not enough to pull a s2k. You need more power and not 1hp,2hp or even 5hp. With such a small difference it will take forever to pass the other car. You don't have too much length on a track. If both cars were at 4500rpm, then yes the BRZ would have an advantage. The S2K is pretty weak in these rpms. The issue is that if you are pulling hard and you are at 45000rpm, then you are doing something wrong (wrong gear or too long final drive ratio for the specific track). So, I find it unlikely that they were pulling from that low.

[Doozer]

Opinion only

S2K's are faster in the corners and in a straight line
86 chassis is more stable and much better under braking
no idea the numbers S2K's are putting out

Success from beating S2K's only comes from patience. (again, opinion only)

Once in front, the 86 can pull away using braking techniques to limit the S2K's offensive weapons

This particular pass was only because S2K driver missed a shift.

S2K is Motec CR2000 with "red head" built engine. FD unknown. Tires: Yokohama A005
86 is Delicious E85 with Anaconda 42.9 header and 4.8FD. No aero and stock motor. Tires: Michelin S8C

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxm2QmpoWyo&t=1s"]BRZ GT86 FRS v S2000 - YouTube[/ame]

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

So you put the older FD in the newer car?

sure did!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Lol, you have a tendency to over exaggerate things. We were not discussing here about E85, but just changing the header and the tune. You cannot pull a S2k in straight line with these two changes.

I own both cars, and this is a roll race I've done many, many times with non-believers. Result is conclusive.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Yes peak power is +30hp (without E85), but it is not enough to pull a s2k. You need more power and not 1hp,2hp or even 5hp. With such a small difference it will take forever to pass the other car. You don't have too much length on a track. If both cars were at 4500rpm, then yes the BRZ would have an advantage. The S2K is pretty weak in these rpms. The issue is that if you are pulling hard and you are at 45000rpm, then you are doing something wrong (wrong gear or too long final drive ratio for the specific track). So, I find it unlikely that they were pulling from that low.

Lets do some ricer bench racing.

165.7whp = 205 crank hp. That extrapolates to 195.3whp = 241.6 crank hp. The S2000 is 237 crank hp. Not only that, the F22C's peak power is at redline, so you only get to ride one side of the curve. With the FA20 + Ace, you get to ride both sides of the curve, resulting in a larger AUC.

Even the math checks out, quite conclusively.

[NAEightySix]

Originally Posted by Doozer

Opinion only



S2K's are faster in the corners and in a straight line

86 chassis is more stable and much better under braking

no idea the numbers S2K's are putting out



Success from beating S2K's only comes from patience. (again, opinion only)



Once in front, the 86 can pull away using braking techniques to limit the S2K's offensive weapons



This particular pass was only because S2K driver missed a shift.



S2K is Motec CR2000 with "red head" built engine. FD unknown. Tires: Yokohama A005

86 is Delicious E85 with Anaconda 42.9 header and 4.8FD. No aero and stock motor. Tires: Michelin S8C

Great stuff, it seemed pretty close most of the time, you seem like a great driver.

Would aero mods have helped you close the gap more in the corners?

Also, why the Anaconda over the 350 or CS400?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NAEightySix]

Thanks to everyone; it’s nice to see different people’s opinion.

Hopefully, this’ll help me decide on something I’ll be happy with... my car is nothing more than a daily driver as of right now that I drive spiritedly whenever possible, although I’d like to take it to the local track one day and see how it fares against other cars.

Both my brothers have AP2s and it seems that they’re always mocking the potential the 86 has lmao


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Lets do some ricer bench racing.

165.7whp = 205 crank hp. That extrapolates to 195.3whp = 241.6 crank hp. The S2000 is 237 crank hp. Not only that, the F22C's peak power is at redline, so you only get to ride one side of the curve. With the FA20 + Ace, you get to ride both sides of the curve, resulting in a larger AUC.

Even the math checks out, quite conclusively.

I am sorry if I insist on this, but you cannot really calculate the crank hp of the updated car with extrapolation. Losses on the wheel are not the same with different power levels.

Here is a video of 80-180km/h (50-112mph) of a 86 with Ace 350 header & tune AND a 4.67 final drive ratio. The other video is of a stock S2k AP1.

I measured both results and approximately we have:

86: 13.0 sec
s2k: 12.8 sec

You might say that they are almost identical, but not that the 86 will pull the s2k in straight line. And don't forget that the particular 86 has a changed final drive ratio which helps a lot in the result ...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I am sorry if I insist on this, but you cannot really calculate the crank hp of the updated car with extrapolation. Losses on the wheel are not the same with different power levels.

Here is a video of 80-180km/h (50-112mph) of a 86 with Ace 350 header & tune AND a 4.67 final drive ratio. The other video is of a stock S2k AP1.

I measured both results and approximately we have:

86: 13.0 sec
s2k: 12.8 sec

You might say that they are almost identical, but not that the 86 will pull the s2k in straight line. And don't forget that the particular 86 has a changed final drive ratio which helps a lot in the result ...

Okay cool. So lets rev that car to redline, instead of 7300, and try again. I suspect you'll have a vastly different result.

Alternatively, a car with a stock final drive will ALSO have an even faster result, due to 1 less shift (do the math for gearing).

[Hades]

I don't see where the debate is. 86 + Ace makes more power than a *stock* s2k everywhere. I doubt it could pull on an s2k with IHE but would love to be proven wrong.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Hades

I don't see where the debate is. 86 + Ace makes more power than a *stock* s2k everywhere. I doubt it could pull on an s2k with IHE but would love to be proven wrong.

What's funny is why are we comparing different cars at this point? I think the general question you see on the forum is what is the best header? Shouldn't this be about comparing the ACE to other headers on the 86 platform?

I'd advise anyone interested in purchasing to throw the numbers out of the window and just look at the damn curves.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I don't know how many times you've seen this, but have it again!

i'm surely missing something, but how is 42hp gain even possible with just header+ tune

i have UEL header + full skat + tune from Fensport and I don't even reach a 20hp gain with 100Ron fuel... and you get 42hp with just header and tune and normal fuel?

[Apex No.525300887039]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

i'm surely missing something, but how is 42hp gain even possible with just header+ tune

i have UEL header + full skat + tune from Fensport and I don't even reach a 20hp gain with 100Ron fuel... and you get 42hp with just header and tune and normal fuel?

Red is E85
Blue is 91 Octane (~95RON?)

header only IIRC