Used FRS vs. new BRZ

[Coachrhino11]

Wow! I started this thread a day or two ago and never thought there would be so many responses, awesome! I’m in the late thirties, approaching 40 group even thought I still feel 25-30 at heart in some ways. Thank you all for responding and giving me something to think about even more, lol. After reading all the responses the only real way to know is go look and drive in person. I just honestly don’t feel there’s been enough changes to justify me paying new money when there’s nice, low mileage models everywhere for 14-18k. I can put my own wheels on, arm rest which I think is crazy they cheap out on. I don’t really care for lowering car or changing engine honestly.

My wife knows I’ve been talking about and eyeing RF since I first saw it, she said this morning when bringing up twins, “why settle when you’ll end up regretting “. That wasn’t her talking s*** about twins, just her knowing how much I’ve wanted RF. I have Jeep, so I have another vehicle with back seat. Hoping to test drive both back to back week in next 10 days or so.

Wish all these cars used regular unleaded. I really wanted fun car that was good on gas, premium here is about .50 gallon more. Do older FRS models have hill start assist? Asking because I have many very large hills I’ll have to sit in traffic on out where I live.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by HKz

... or have the experience of new car ownership

A dealership "certified" used car, at least the one I bought, comes with a full year/12K bumper-to-bumper warranty, and a BETTER drivetrain warranty than the same car new from the same dealership. The "experience of new car ownership" is really only two things; paying a LOT more money for the bragging rights of putting the first 20k or 30k miles on the car, and the ego-boost of showing your friends (and yourself?) that you bought a new car.

New cars make absolutely NO financial sense. I've bought two in my life, and will never, and I mean NEVER, buy another new car.

'72 Datsun B210 (first car in college.. gift from parents with 97K miles on it)
'73 Oldsmobile Delta 88 (girlfriend-and-eventual-wife's college car she bought for $400)
'71 Fiat Spider (private sale)
'74 Fiat Spider (private sale in a pile of parts)
'82 Ford E150 manual van (bought new) ($10k, stripped cargo van; passenger seat for wife was an OPTION)
'80-something Dodge Colt E (Mistubishi, bought privately for $500)
'81 Nissan Sentra (bought from friend, $1200)
'89 Colt Vista (Mitsubishi, bought new) (approx $12K, IIRC)
'92 Ford Aerostar (bought dealer certified used) (approx $12K)
'91 Audi 80 (bought in terrible shape from private "dealer") ($1K)
'93 Toyota Celica (bought dealer certified used) (approx $12K)
'93 BMW 325i (bought from dealer in as-is condition from auction) ($8.5K, and best bang for the buck of all of my cars ever)
'93 Range Rover County LWB (bought in charity auction from church, $15K)
'89 Volvo 240 (private sale, $900)
'92 Volvo 240 (private sale, $1200)
'88 Mercedes 560SL (eBay purchase, nightmare, $15K)
'99 Mercedes ML430 (local used car dealer, $15k)
'06 Mercedes ML500 (same local used car dealer, $12K, but needed new tranny)
'13 Scion FR-S (Toyota/Scion dealership, certified, $17K)

I had nothing but trouble with the Ford van I bought new, and gave up on it at about 65K miles. The other new car, the Dodge/Mitsu Colt Vista, was a great little family truckster, but only went 125k miles before it became unreliable.

Best bangs for the buck were the 325i by a long shot (I put almost 200K miles on it myself, and the only problems it ever had were stuff that is SUPPOSED to wear out), followed by, believe it or not, the Ford Aerostar (we put over 200K on that ourselves), the Celica (of course.. 235K on it before giving it to our oldest son in college), and the ML430 (235K on it, 150K of which were ours) before the salt and multiple deer hits took it's toll on it.

Worst cars, fiscally, were the Rover (although we love, Love, LOVED it, the high-for-us purchase price, constant maintenance and repairs, and rusting out of liftgate made it a tough vehicular partner), the two Fiats (lots of fun, never ran reliably, but were cheap so maybe NOT necessarily a bad bang-for-buck), the ML500 (simply because I had to sink SO much time and money into it to fix a bunch of undisclosed problems.. $1500 worth of modules, $7000 for tranny and torque converter, and a host of other expensive stuff; the $12K bargain turned into paying $22K total for a car worth maybe $15K.. and less, now.. but it's been great for the past year or two). AND.. the FR-S. Not because it isn't a fun car, or reliable, or cheap to drive.. but because I paid more for it (except for the ML500 w/ repairs) than any other car. There's no WAY it'll equal the 325i, no matter how many miles I put on it, in terms of value for your dollar.

On another note, you can tell by my list that we're not exactly filthy rich. On the other hand, we haven't had car loans in decades, and have paid off our mortgage. I've loved driving BMW, Mercedes, Range Rover, and Volvo vehicles. Plan on eventually owning a Porsche. No way we could do ANY of that new. I just don't get why anyone would want to pay new car prices for any reason. Heck, I saw a new Toyota Sienna minivan at the dealership a few days ago... for over $50K!!!! Unbelievable. If I had $50k to spend on a car, I'd buy four great used cars and put two in storage for the future.

Yeah, I kind of feel strongly about this issue. Sorry for the long-winded trip through memory lane. I just don't get it, though.. what is so great about buying a new car? Where's the value in it?

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

... I just honestly don’t feel there’s been enough changes to justify me paying new money when there’s nice, low mileage models everywhere for 14-18k. ...

LOL... Now I wish I hadn't spent all that time composing my previous post. You're obviously already a very smart, astute dude!

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

Wish all these cars used regular unleaded. I really wanted fun car that was good on gas, premium here is about .50 gallon more. Do older FRS models have hill start assist? Asking because I have many very large hills I’ll have to sit in traffic on out where I live.

I routinely get 40mpg on long highway trips, and rarely under 30mpg even "around town" in an admittedly semi-rural area. Don't worry about that premium gas issue. My Dad always wants to take his car when we go places together because, according to him, "My car's cheaper to drive.. it takes regular gas".. "But, Dad... your car gets worse gas mileage by a long shot" ... (blank stare)...

I don't know if new models have hill assist; mine doesn't. We survived many many decades without hill assist.. I didn't even know it was a thing until I bought the ML500 for my wife. Personally, I hate it. When it DOESN'T move when I take my foot off the brake, my first reaction is, "Oh crap, the brakes are sticking." I live in a very hilly area, too, and have no issues at all starting on a steep uphill in my manual FR-S. If you get feeling panicky, there's always the handbrake for some help until you get the feel for it.

You'll love the car.. best to you!

[Aluma007]

The LEDs and steering wheel on the 17 brz finally convinced me to get one last year...haven't kept a car more than 2-3 years in a while and I've driven many others as well...can't say I'd want to buy another car anytime soon. Very happy with the brz. Other than back seat passenger complaints, its an amazing little car and I've averaged 31mpg for over 16K miles....I'd probably get more if I slowed down a little, but wheres the fun in that??? :P

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

Wow! I started this thread a day or two ago and never thought there would be so many responses, awesome! I’m in the late thirties, approaching 40 group even thought I still feel 25-30 at heart in some ways. Thank you all for responding and giving me something to think about even more, lol. After reading all the responses the only real way to know is go look and drive in person. I just honestly don’t feel there’s been enough changes to justify me paying new money when there’s nice, low mileage models everywhere for 14-18k. I can put my own wheels on, arm rest which I think is crazy they cheap out on. I don’t really care for lowering car or changing engine honestly.

My wife knows I’ve been talking about and eyeing RF since I first saw it, she said this morning when bringing up twins, “why settle when you’ll end up regretting “. That wasn’t her talking s*** about twins, just her knowing how much I’ve wanted RF. I have Jeep, so I have another vehicle with back seat. Hoping to test drive both back to back week in next 10 days or so.

Wish all these cars used regular unleaded. I really wanted fun car that was good on gas, premium here is about .50 gallon more. Do older FRS models have hill start assist? Asking because I have many very large hills I’ll have to sit in traffic on out where I live.

See this is why I was confused about your two choices. Used FRS or new BRZ is pretty specific? So many here like to harp that there have been "no changes" but that isn't really accurate. There have been many incremental changes each MY since the 13s came out. Even though none are huge when you add them all together the old versions of the FRS are quite different than the new BRZ. The 17s had many, many improvements made. Doing a side by side of a 13 FRS to a 17 BRZ Limited or 86GT is sort of comparing crab apples to granny smith apples. A lot of the guys here and in the media that say there is "no change" simply mean that they haven't got the factory 300HP Mustang killer they think the car is supposed to be.

If looking at all the goodies that the RF has then the FRS is going to be sadly lacking and indeed could be "settling". The new 86 or BRZ will be closer but still not the same. There are many things that the RF offers that you will never see on a Twin. The twins also have some things that are better so it is a give and take.

The hill assist came out on all MT versions in 2016. Not sure if the ATs have it even now.

If you want the most up to date improvements then just look for a used 17 BRZ Limited or a new BRZ or 86GT. These have all the bells and whistles. If you want just a base car then a 13 to 16 FRS or BRZ Premium. Someplace in the middle would be a 13 to 16 BRZ Limited.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

I routinely get 40mpg on long highway trips, and rarely under 30mpg even "around town" in an admittedly semi-rural area. Don't worry about that premium gas issue. My Dad always wants to take his car when we go places together because, according to him, "My car's cheaper to drive.. it takes regular gas".. "But, Dad... your car gets worse gas mileage by a long shot" ... (blank stare)...

My wife says the same. and even though my average is 32MPG and hers is 28MPG she does not get the idea that hers is not cheaper since it uses regular gas.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Riftur

I am just going by what I see on the road. Thats why i said most. I found my car which was owned by an older gentleman before me and it had very low mileage on it. They exist but I doubt there are many.

Did you check the car's rear end closely for damage ??.......


humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

............... Do older FRS models have hill start assist? Asking because I have many very large hills I’ll have to sit in traffic on out where I live.

No, my 2013 FR-S doesn't have hill assist ...... but, I'm sure, if I can manage the hills out here, you would be able to manage the hills in Texas ......


humfrz

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

My wife says the same. and even though my average is 32MPG and hers is 28MPG she does not get the idea that hers is not cheaper since it uses regular gas.

Maybe I’m just very run down and tired now, but due to .50 gallon difference, I like idea of filling up with regular, no?

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by humfrz

No, my 2013 FR-S doesn't have hill assist ...... but, I'm sure, if I can manage the hills out here, you would be able to manage the hills in Texas ......


humfrz

Lol, you definitely have me beat on hills. But I’m brand new to manual, really only got to drive on RF in parking lot and roads around dealership.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

................... I just don't get it, though.. what is so great about buying a new car? Where's the value in it?

Well, I have always bought new (in my adult life at least), with the exceptions of buying starter cars for my kids.

However, I keep most of my cars at least 10 years, so, that may make a difference ......


humfrz

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by Aluma007

The LEDs and steering wheel on the 17 brz finally convinced me to get one last year...haven't kept a car more than 2-3 years in a while and I've driven many others as well...can't say I'd want to buy another car anytime soon. Very happy with the brz. Other than back seat passenger complaints, its an amazing little car and I've averaged 31mpg for over 16K miles....I'd probably get more if I slowed down a little, but wheres the fun in that??? :P

Steering wheel? I like looks in pics of FR-S fatter steering wheel, am I wrong? Haven’t seen either in person.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Coachrhino11

Lol, you definitely have me beat on hills. But I’m brand new to manual, really only got to drive on RF in parking lot and roads around dealership.

Speaking of hills in a Miata, going up this 14,000 ft. high mountain in CO (Pikes Peak), did present a "start" challenge at about 13,000 feet, when rounding a hair pin curve on the gravel section, when a DA in a camper stopped mid curve ......

However, not to worry ....... it's all paved now ......


humfrz

[Coachrhino11]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

See this is why I was confused about your two choices. Used FRS or new BRZ is pretty specific? So many here like to harp that there have been "no changes" but that isn't really accurate. There have been many incremental changes each MY since the 13s came out. Even though none are huge when you add them all together the old versions of the FRS are quite different than the new BRZ. The 17s had many, many improvements made. Doing a side by side of a 13 FRS to a 17 BRZ Limited or 86GT is sort of comparing crab apples to granny smith apples. A lot of the guys here and in the media that say there is "no change" simply mean that they haven't got the factory 300HP Mustang killer they think the car is supposed to be.

If looking at all the goodies that the RF has then the FRS is going to be sadly lacking and indeed could be "settling". The new 86 or BRZ will be closer but still not the same. There are many things that the RF offers that you will never see on a Twin. The twins also have some things that are better so it is a give and take.

The hill assist came out on all MT versions in 2016. Not sure if the ATs have it even now.

If you want the most up to date improvements then just look for a used 17 BRZ Limited or a new BRZ or 86GT. These have all the bells and whistles. If you want just a base car then a 13 to 16 FRS or BRZ Premium. Someplace in the middle would be a 13 to 16 BRZ Limited.

Honestly, I just said FR-S or new BRZ, but I was inferring used twin vs. new regardless of which. I personally don’t like looks of new 86 front just in pics and interior looks cheaper. What goodies other than removable top does RF have that BRZ doesn’t?