Mods vs possible BRZ STI

[ImAwesome]

Surprised a mild displacement increase hasn't been discussed. We know nothing about the internals yet. Maybe they'll do a 2.2 or 2.3 with more aggressive heads and cams. I don't see them chasing more then 230-240 simply because of price point.

I also think for the most part they realize that they don't have a lot of cross competition between the wrx/sti/brz. Most people who go to buy one of these cars, wants that car. Usually because it is an awd turbo car, or in the BRZ's case, a lightweight rwd, driver's experience of a car.

The STI version is going to stick to the same principles. To me a true drivers car in most cases is going to be NA. They won't want to be increasing weight. You saw in the concept that they used a carbon roof to further lower the CoG. I don't think there is going to a whole lot of variance from the concept. In the past when you introduce a high performance concept of a car that is in production, it stays fairly true to that.

In summary
N/A 230-240hp
Lightweight parts
big brakes
aesthetics
$5k price increase to $32k

[Thunderchicken]

Originally Posted by ImAwesome

Surprised a mild displacement increase hasn't been discussed. We know nothing about the internals yet. Maybe they'll do a 2.2 or 2.3 with more aggressive heads and cams. I don't see them chasing more then 230-240 simply because of price point.

I also think for the most part they realize that they don't have a lot of cross competition between the wrx/sti/brz. Most people who go to buy one of these cars, wants that car. Usually because it is an awd turbo car, or in the BRZ's case, a lightweight rwd, driver's experience of a car.

The STI version is going to stick to the same principles. To me a true drivers car in most cases is going to be NA. They won't want to be increasing weight. You saw in the concept that they used a carbon roof to further lower the CoG. I don't think there is going to a whole lot of variance from the concept. In the past when you introduce a high performance concept of a car that is in production, it stays fairly true to that.

In summary
N/A 230-240hp
Lightweight parts
big brakes
aesthetics
$5k price increase to $32k

I don't see them doing displacement increase because extra parts manufacturing for less then 6000 units USDM, and you no longer will be able to stick to a square motor which will only decrease rpm. Plus having to tell Toyota that your TRD edition can't be apart for the 86 tradition.

[ImAwesome]

Good points, But increasing displacement doesn't always mean decreased RPM's.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Thunderchicken

I don't see them doing displacement increase because extra parts manufacturing for less then 6000 units USDM, and you no longer will be able to stick to a square motor which will only decrease rpm. Plus having to tell Toyota that your TRD edition can't be apart for the 86 tradition.

It's not so much the square-ness as the length of the stroke.

Given different casting cores they could probably choose any bore up to 94mm. This would create an oversquare ~2.4L motor with only a bit more stress on the rods from the increased weight of the pistons.

[MONTEMEX3]

Is there anyway to increase the torque from the abysmal 151 lb. feet?

[Coheed]

You could rock a bored out, destroked long-rod setup. 2.2L with a longer rod should slow piston speeds for an easy 8500rpm. :P

It wouldn't have the cylinder filling properties at low RPM for the tq, but it should improve high end filling.

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by MONTEMEX3

Is there anyway to increase the torque from the abysmal 151 lb. feet?

I almost choked on my tea from this comment. 151 is no slouch for a factory 2.0.

[Symbiont]

Sometimes I really don't get what people expect to get from a NA 2.0 in such a light platform for under 30k.

[Thunderchicken]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's not so much the square-ness as the length of the stroke.

Given different casting cores they could probably choose any bore up to 94mm. This would create an oversquare ~2.4L motor with only a bit more stress on the rods from the increased weight of the pistons.

yes, they could but unless you are going to do this with with just the normal brz/frs the cost isn't worth it. Having a one of block, pistons, and rods to make a motors your only going to sell 6000 units per country if that.

The best sense is to change valve retainers to allow higher rpms, go to sodium filled valves, larger throttle body, freer exhaust, and some ecu programming.

I only say this because I'm in the manufacturing industry and doing a redesign costs much more then just doing smaller things. Yes, the mod community will probably be able to make these changes that will equal the power you'll see on the STi/TRD version.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Thunderchicken

The best sense is to change valve retainers to allow higher rpms, go to sodium filled valves, larger throttle body, freer exhaust, and some ecu programming.

Sodium filled valves sound rather expensive Not to mention hollow stem valves need new valve guides right?

I think we'd see a supercharger before displacement increase. They said no supercharger, bad for fuel efficiency (even though it doesn't really affect day to day driving). Then it logically follows that increasing displacement, which hurts FE the most, would not happen.

[arghx7]

^ How do you know they're not already sodium-filled? That's not an exotic thing anymore. The EJ257 has it already.

If there were a displacement increase, it would certainly buck the trend of displacement going down. It'd be harder to meet fuel economy and emissions targets, but with such low volume maybe that doesn't matter much.

I really think the engine speed range and the compression ratio are probably near their limits for a production application. I doubt those heads will flow over 8000rpm. To make them flow better you would kill the charge motion in the cylinder, which hurts fuel economy and emissions.

So far we've seen horsepower increases from reducing restriction (while increasing sound and emissions) and leaning the mixture. I'm skeptical that major changes to the engine hardware will yield good results, at least for the dollars spent. It seems maxed out already. I'm also concerned that there could be GDI injector coking problems in the future with leaner tunes. They're sensitive to that.

[Coheed]

Ya, there is some serious restriction on the top end. There was some questions regarding the sudden drop of power after 6800rpm or so. Some thought the throttle was being closed prior to rev cut.

There is likely some flow restrictions inherent with the boxer design. The ports are shaped funny for packaging reasons, and also the intake manifold is something I'll have to research or experiment with. There is a major restriction on the top end.

[Cessblood]

Originally Posted by dabocx

The question is are you willing to wait for what could be vaporware. The STI version was a concept but never confirmed so its hard to know if it will come out and when.

It could be next week, it could be 3 years from now with a refresh. Or it could just be factory addons. Its all in the air.

Someone else said that it's going to be STI add on parts just like TRD will have add on parts.

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by Thunderchicken

I don't see them doing displacement increase because extra parts manufacturing for less then 6000 units USDM, and you no longer will be able to stick to a square motor which will only decrease rpm. Plus having to tell Toyota that your TRD edition can't be apart for the 86 tradition.

I was hoping for an increased displacement engine. It make some sense if they want to continue with emulating the Cayman and leaning on the LFA engineering/marketing.

If they pushed the bore out a few mm and the stroke up to 90mm they'd be around 2.4L capacity. A few slightly more exotic materials, give it a decent voice through a revised intake and exhaust (just a few extra db) and they could push out 235-240hp. This would put it into the mid-low 14 second 1.4mile bracket. I'd also like to see new flared FRP front guards (offset the weight increase) and slightly pumped rear guards to allow another 20mm track, RAYS forged 17 x 8.5" wheels with 10mm more offset (keeping 17" to reduce weight and allows them to talk about pure sports ethos over fashion, bla bla). Put some grippier 235/40/17, some larger ~324mm brakes up front with 2-piece rotors. A few bits of the underbody bracing from TRD, drop the height ~15mm, a few harder rubber bushings and ~15% firmer springs and add 1mm to the anti-roll bars. Plus an STi badge to let everyone know you have the disease.

Just detail changes everywhere, the type of stuff owners do to their cars over the years.

This would sell well !