Home Theater/Personal audio thread...

[Clipdat]

Taking a look at the Schiit Vidar amplifier (http://www.schiit.com/products/vidar), specifically the internals, I'm trying to figure out why the wiring for the power input and speaker output terminals appears to be such a thin gauge. It looks like 18ga wiring, wouldn't at least 12ga make more sense for these type of connections?

I don't know why, but I get hung up when judging internals of electronics if I see something like this that looks like a weak point.

Thoughts?

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

I'm trying to figure out why the wiring for the power input and speaker output terminals appears to be such a thin gauge.

This is my power amp, the wiring does look thin for a 55 pounder.



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlWd8UR2TDw"]Sony TA N77ES - YouTube[/ame]


I forgot to mention that the Sony ES components of that era used the then relatively new Hitachi LC-OFC wiring for the internals.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Taking a look at the Schiit Vidar amplifier (http://www.schiit.com/products/vidar), specifically the internals, I'm trying to figure out why the wiring for the power input and speaker output terminals appears to be such a thin gauge. It looks like 18ga wiring, wouldn't at least 12ga make more sense for these type of connections?

I don't know why, but I get hung up when judging internals of electronics if I see something like this that looks like a weak point.

Thoughts?

No. It's too short to matter; there's probably more loss through the solder joint or the actual terminal than 18ga vs 12ga in this use.

The only reason 12ga and bigger is common is to keep impedance down - longer cables (well, really the impedance change that results) will change the overall Q of the speaker, and if the design doesn't properly account for this (i.e. runs a smaller than ideal box) it's bad news. For people like me who target ~.58, there's lots of room and it still remains critically damped. But people often comment that I end up with larger boxes than a certain someone will allow...

[Clipdat]

Ok, so this is the same reason that speakers have thin gauge internal wiring as well? Almost all photos of speakers that I find online look to have pretty thin wiring, with the exception of the Bryston Mini A which looks to have super beefy internal wiring:

Originally Posted by cjd

No. It's too short to matter; there's probably more loss through the solder joint or the actual terminal than 18ga vs 12ga in this use.

The only reason 12ga and bigger is common is to keep impedance down - longer cables (well, really the impedance change that results) will change the overall Q of the speaker, and if the design doesn't properly account for this (i.e. runs a smaller than ideal box) it's bad news. For people like me who target ~.58, there's lots of room and it still remains critically damped. But people often comment that I end up with larger boxes than a certain someone will allow...

[Clipdat]

Those analog VU meters though...

Originally Posted by krayzie

This is my power amp, the wiring does look thin for a 55 pounder.
I forgot to mention that the Sony ES components of that era used the then relatively new Hitachi LC-OFC wiring for the internals.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Ok, so this is the same reason that speakers have thin gauge internal wiring as well? Almost all photos of speakers that I find online look to have pretty thin wiring, with the exception of the Bryston Mini A which looks to have super beefy internal wiring:

Mostly, though it's less common to see thin wiring in high end stuff as far as I've seen it. Like, car expensive. Mid-fi and such, cost keeps the wire thin as often as not. Boxes already too small usually so what's a little more bump... And some people like the soft thub of their mid bass in the 50Hz range, which this can help. Gotta make the money somewhere, and copper isn't getting cheaper.

This all impacts woofers mostly, so mid/tweeter wiring that's thin is irrelevant. Also an argument for amps right at the speaker... Or powered.

[Clipdat]

It was just suggested to me that this would pair nicely with my new LSiM 703s. "MastersounD Dueventi"


Parallel Single Ended, Class A Design
Output Power: 20 watts per channel (pentode); 10 watts per channel (triode)
Inputs: 3x line level, 1x phono (MM)
Tubes: 2x ECC802 (12au7), 4x EL34
Weight: 53lbs

[Clipdat]

Another good one for headphones or speakers (subwoofer recommended)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7bHjtcVMT8"]Oscillist - Deep Sea Dreaming - YouTube[/ame]

[Clipdat]

Also been told to look into this for my LSiM 703 pairing.

Dayens Menuetto:



https://www.dayens.rs/eng_menuetto.html

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Also been told to look into this for my LSiM 703 pairing.

Dayens Menuetto:



https://www.dayens.rs/eng_menuetto.html

The Menuetto looks like a nice choice based off reviews I looked at of it. Personally, would be the direction I would be inclined go if were in your situation - seems like a great solid state integrated amp.

Massdrop Focal Elex has me interested... not going to get one (anytime soon at least), but would really like to hear a Focal Clear at some point to see if maybe a secondhand Elex would have a chance to fall within my listening preference down the line. Based on the information I've seen about it, would have a very good chance of possibly replacing the HD700.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdro...lex-headphones

[Vracer111]

Oh, and I'm really loving the Koss ESP950...absolutely top tier level audio quality for a mi-fi price. Both the Koss E90 and STAX SRM-323S driver units do a great job, really not much difference between them I can tell so far when paired with my Gustard X20U DAC - both come across PHENOMINALLY clear with absolutely astonishing detail. The SRM-323S seems it may give a slightlier punchier/harder hitting bass and the E90 smoother in the mids, but very minor differences. If you have a chance check to check out a pair of ESP950s, take it!

Because of the ESP950, I bought 2 albums on bandcamp I had been thinking about for awhile, immediately. Also got a third album that really shines with the ESP950's, the Cuphead - Soundtrack:

https://studiomdhr.bandcamp.com/albu...nal-soundtrack

If you are interested in some of what I like to listen to, then this is my bandcamp collection.

The Gustard X20U is definitely the level of DAC that gives you everything needed to really appreciate the speed and detail of an ESP950. The Schiit Loki gives a very satisfactory bass level at 3:00... just a tad too bass light for my taste without it.

[Clipdat]

Dude! The earcups on those Koss headphones are absolutely massive! Don't those feel weird to wear? It looks like they would extend well past the top and bottom of your ears. How is it able to make a good seal that way? Would you say that the sound quality is dramatically different from the other pairs of headphones that you own like your gorgeous Fostex?

How would you say the Gustard X20U compares to the Schiit Bifrost? I sold my DragonFly Red and have just been using the very nice soundcard built into my MSI motherboard (Japanese caps, high s/n ratio, etc) but I'm getting the itch to go to a dedicated DAC again and was looking at the Bifrost again.

Thanks for the link to your Bandcamp page, I like how it features one song from all the various releases like that. The whole page itself also has a very nice and clean aesthetic. I checked a few of them out and while I can't say that it's my preferred genre, it's certainly extremely expressive and dynamic music. I can imagine it gives your gear quite a workout. I will check them all out eventually for sure.

I decided not to get the Dayens Menuetto and instead I purchased a used McCormack DNA-125: http://www.mccormackaudio.com/dna125.html

I will pair it with the Schiit Saga preamp. I've already ordered a few 6sn7 tubes to roll! Should be an interesting experience.

Originally Posted by Vracer111

Oh, and I'm really loving the Koss ESP950...absolutely top tier level audio quality for a mi-fi price. Both the Koss E90 and STAX SRM-323S driver units do a great job, really not much difference between them I can tell so far when paired with my Gustard X20U DAC - both come across PHENOMINALLY clear with absolutely astonishing detail. The SRM-323S seems it may give a slightlier punchier/harder hitting bass and the E90 smoother in the mids, but very minor differences. If you have a chance check to check out a pair of ESP950s, take it!

Because of the ESP950, I bought 2 albums on bandcamp I had been thinking about for awhile, immediately. Also got a third album that really shines with the ESP950's, the Cuphead - Soundtrack:

https://studiomdhr.bandcamp.com/albu...nal-soundtrack

If you are interested in some of what I like to listen to, then this is my bandcamp collection.

The Gustard X20U is definitely the level of DAC that gives you everything needed to really appreciate the speed and detail of an ESP950. The Schiit Loki gives a very satisfactory bass level at 3:00... just a tad too bass light for my taste without it.

[krayzie]

Shit I didn't even know Koss does electrostatics. That looks like it's from the 80's or something.

It actually doesn't look all that massive to me, at least not Sony MDR-R10 massive lol!

Actually about 15 years ago I won an eBay auction of some deadstock 80's JDM high end earphones (Aiwa HP-V9 and Technics RP-HV100) from a former Koss engineer in the US. He told me that during the mid 80's they were studying the sound reproduction of high end Japanese products (maybe Stax too?) in order to further improve upon their own product line.

[Vracer111]

They do have big cups/pads, but it works fine - not as annoying as Sennheiser HD800s. The sound quality is beyond any regular headphone except for the bass. You get these for their detail/finesse and fluidity/speed above most any other headphone available. While the bass extension and detail is absolutely excellent, the presence/impact just cannot match the level of a dynamic driver - its the physical difference in ability between a dynamic and electrostatic planar driver. I love both the TH-X00PH and ESP950 for what they each do, perfectly complimentary headphones... I could live with just those two cans and their setup for the rest of my life:



About the Schiit Bifrost, it's not really 'wowed' me, ever. It's competent for sure, but just cannot compare to the Gustard X20U, two completed different levels of DAC. Bifrost is cold/sterile and soul-less sounding compared to the Gustard and when comes to technical abilities it lacks in detail, speed, dynamics, bass extension, and bass impact... absolutely no comparison between the two. The X20U is often compared head to head with the Schiit YGGDRASIL.... it's that level of DAC for a MUCH lower price, and I picked up mine used for almost half off new. Only thing I wish is the display could be turned off, since DAC is left on 24/7 - at least it is a black TFT LCD display that can be dimmed.

My bandcamp selection is just a small sample of what I have, most of my collection is on CD ripped to FLAC. Some examples of stuff not on bandcamp I like is instrumental electric guitar (Joe Satriani, Jeff Beck, Paul Gilbert, Eric Johnson), orchestral/classical, and female vocals (Imogen Heap, Lacey Sturm, Venus Hum).

Used or refurbished gear always is great bang for the buck. Interested to hear your impressions of it.