Looking for logs of stock tune/stock exhaust...

[Tor]

Does anyone have logs of a stock tune with all engine components stock?

What I look for is:
- WOT 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear.
- Acceleration from 3000 rpm in 6th gear with say 30-50% throttle.

Preferably on 93 US or 98 RON and at moderate temperatures around 60-70 deg (15 to 20 c). Best if logged with Tactrix with as many parameters as possible.

I know it's pretty specific. But I thought worth a shot, before asking someone with a stock car locally to log his car (also it's bloody cold here at the moment).

Other stock logs that don't match the above are welcomed too.

[jasonojordan]

Reason for these very specific logs your looking for???

[Tor]

Yes, I want to see how much knock activity Subaru found acceptable.

And I think it would be nice to be able to reference "what did it do OEM" in general.

[steve99]

https://datazap.me/u/steve99/south-a...=1477440000000

Stock car stock tune but 95 ron jn sooth africa

[Tor]

Thanks Steve. That's kind of what I expected, only a lot worse.

From what I can deduct, the cams timing tables that are active below IAM 0.4 are reducing the effective compression ratio at high rpm. Could this circumstance be interpreted as Subaru perhaps deems "anything above IAM 0.4 is normal and acceptable and not until it drops below 0.4 there a need to intervene"?

I am of course not saying we should tune for the car to run IAM 0.4. Rather, that perhaps it shouldn't be taken too serious if there are occasional small/moderate drops in IAM and/or moderate levels of FLKC in extreme scenarios.

It would be helpful to see how a stock car runs on good quality 98 RON fuel as recommended. If there are no logs available, I am going to see if I can find a stock car here locally and get permission to log it next year. Or maybe I will throw the stock header back on and go back to stock tune myself.

[steve99]

https://datazap.me/u/steve99/stock-t...ata=1-10-11-14

stock car and tune on 100ron fuel (its 98 ron with 10% ethanol)


most tuners seem to accept -1 corrections quite often and the odd -2 occasionally as long as it doesnt drop iam or drop it significantly ie if it drops to 0.95 or so occasionally its acceptable

[Tor]

My theory is that our tolerance for ECU knock management activity, as a community, is far less than that of Subaru. I mean, with open source and without the benefits of custom maps, where do we compromise?

Example 1: High levels of FLKC (more than -2) at high speed/gear/rpm without IAM drop.

Example 2: Shift lazy and accelerating from low rpm in high gear (5th/6th) with moderate/aggressive pedal pressure. Moderate levels of FLKC enough to drop IAM to e.g. 0.8.

My interest in seeing a stock log came about because of example 2. In one log I saw it drops IAM from 1 to 0.8. But in a matter of just 40 seconds, it's back to IAM 0.97. So... Adjust the tune? Or leave it?



I think the majority here on the forums would start looking at timing tables and try to figure out a way to prevent it from happening, myself included until recently.

Now I am leaning more to letting the ECU deal with those infrequent and out of the ordinary scenarios. Next question, for me personally, is if I think this is a good enough solution or if I want to spend 1000$ on Ecutek just to solve this one issue, which might not be much of an issue at all.

P.s.
I also have one stock log myself from before I switched to stg 1, but it doesn't have the mentioned examples. Also, it was done at 35 deg c ambient and 40+ deg c IAT. And the fuel used is advertised as minimum 100 octane (I think it's 102, at least it doesn't knock more or less than another brand that is advertised as 102):
https://datazap.me/u/tor/stock-a00g-...ta=15-19-26-27

I regret not having logged thoroughly before switching header. It would be quite fun to flash a stock tune, modified with Ztan's o2 sensor scaling so we can see what's going on.

[Kodename47]

I would suggest that if you're tuning the car then you want to remove as much consistent IAM drops, FLKC and FBKC as possible. However as the ECU and programming isn't perfect there will always be times when knock might not be picked up or a false detection. For NA I would suggest that you could just let the ECU do it's thing, not so much with FI. The Romraider guys seem to have a wider tolerance than that of here, but they do run lower compression too.

You can stop IAM reducing in certain areas just by tinkering with the Advance Timing table (B in RR IIRC). FLKC or FBKC will still be active so you can let that do it's thing instead. IAM reduction is just another method of timing reduction and not necessarily a sign that things are generally poor, for example you could cause IAM to drop repeatedly at low RPM high load but if you stay WOT and it runs clean by the end of the pull you could be back up to IAM of 1. The reason it stays at a set value tends to be because you're not hitting the load and RPM requirements for it to re-evaluate. It's where the IAM is always moving and never hitting 1 is where you would start to look at the cause IMO. Besides, what does a IAM of 0.9 mean the timing is reduced by? At maximum on the average tune it's less than 1 degree, of which FLKC and FBKC will pull more.

If the tune consistently pulls timing at WOT, I would look into it. So long as it's not doing it all the time in other regions, or at such high values then I would simply not be too bothered.

I'm sure you've answered this before but have you reduced the default FLKC/FBKC values? On a well sorted tune then this could mean that any detected events cost you less and you can evaluate how much of a problem it is better IMO.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

I would suggest that if you're tuning the car then you want to remove as much consistent IAM drops, FLKC and FBKC as possible. However as the ECU and programming isn't perfect there will always be times when knock might not be picked up or a false detection. For NA I would suggest that you could just let the ECU do it's thing, not so much with FI. The Romraider guys seem to have a wider tolerance than that of here, but they do run lower compression too.

You can stop IAM reducing in certain areas just by tinkering with the Advance Timing table (B in RR IIRC). FLKC or FBKC will still be active so you can let that do it's thing instead. IAM reduction is just another method of timing reduction and not necessarily a sign that things are generally poor, for example you could cause IAM to drop repeatedly at low RPM high load but if you stay WOT and it runs clean by the end of the pull you could be back up to IAM of 1. The reason it stays at a set value tends to be because you're not hitting the load and RPM requirements for it to re-evaluate. It's where the IAM is always moving and never hitting 1 is where you would start to look at the cause IMO. Besides, what does a IAM of 0.9 mean the timing is reduced by? At maximum on the average tune it's less than 1 degree, of which FLKC and FBKC will pull more.

If the tune consistently pulls timing at WOT, I would look into it. So long as it's not doing it all the time in other regions, or at such high values then I would simply not be too bothered.

I'm sure you've answered this before but have you reduced the default FLKC/FBKC values? On a well sorted tune then this could mean that any detected events cost you less and you can evaluate how much of a problem it is better IMO.

The FLKC retard value is -0.65, would you reduce it even further? The tune is otherwise only has low levels of FLKC and doesn't drop IAM in other cases. It's a buddies car, and he likes to drive in 6th during his commutes.

I made some changes to CL fueling, so that it matches POL 100% (no, could keep from tinkering with it ). So CL target AFR at load 0.85 and above is around 12.8 down to 12.5. He tried this out and couldn't get it to FLKC more that -0.65 today. But I wonder what impact this will have on fuel economy, though I think it's not really in those loads in the majority of cruising and it should in most similar cases/accelerations transition to OL fairly quickly anyway.

Also, I wonder if it's actually the extra fuel that fixes it or if it's more seamless CL/OL transition.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I had the same question years ago with my Forester which has the sister engine (FB20). I was monitoring the IAM with the stock tune and a custom tune. In both cases the IAM would drop, even with high quality fuel. At that time I was very concerned that something was wrong with the engine. I informed my dealer that there was some knock, he checked the car and told me that nothing was wrong. I was almost ready to sell my car, because I was afraid that the engine will fail at sometime. I was even horified that it will probably fail after the end of the warranty period. In general, all these happened because the internet was not informed. It looks that at some time Subaru changed the tolerance for ECU "knock" management activity and now is much more sensitive. We did some monitoring with a friend who had an older Forester with the older generation engine. So, my decision was to stop monitoring, flash back the stock tune since the custom tune didn't provide much difference and to not sell it. After 5 years, the engine is still very strong, without any issues and I am enjoying my daily driven car.


Going back to sleep again ...

Yes, I suspect we, again as a community, have way too little confidence in the ECU. Of course it shouldn't be a goal to run with heavy FLKC/IAM drop, but it might be worth to consider not sacrificing performance for the odd drops.


I tuned another car as well. From a dyno day with 6 other GT86s it made the most power. It was 1 of 3 with OFT header and all were tuned. The others were a Gruppe-S header and a HKS header (forgot what the last one was). One of them was Ecutek tuned professionally and the rest open source. Not to brag, because I was also involved in the Gruppe-S header that made the least power.

It was as good as knock free during road logs he sent back to me. This a 3rd gear pull after 5 in a row:



On the dyno run it looked like this, no idea why - except it must be compareable to driving up a 45 deg hill. They used 3rd gear on the dyno as well. I was actually suprised it made the most power of 6 cars like this:

[nikitopo]

Looking for log files of a stock +'17 MT car. I am interested more on the maf readings.