[2017 BRZ] Still lost with tires, looking for help

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by jvincent

Define "pretty cold".

In general if you have extended periods below 45*F you should swap out your summers.

My rule of thumb is swap to an all season if you're consistently OR routinely below 45f, with minimal snow and no icing concerns, swap to a winter tire if you're consistently OR routinely below 32*f for icing alone, even if you don't get snow.

Tires like the Xice3 are wonderful for people who don't get tons of snow but still get the icing conditions and lower temperatures. Arctics with their larger tread blocks seem to work well for people in high elevation where the snow comes down by the foot routinely. (Used to live on the side of a mountain, swore by my arctics!) 4 foot snow storms were nothing crazy, just a heads up that you should wear your thicker socks because you'll be plowing for a while, and fire up the generator before hand because the power will likely go out.

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

I actually really like those lug nuts. I have them in chrome on my BRZ, and in black on my wife's Crosstrek.

Three types of tires: Summer, all season, and winter. All seasons perform drastically worse than either summers in summer, or winters in winter, and are barely adequate in summer and in winter.

If you must have an all season, the Michelin Pilot AS3 and Continental DWS are as good as they get, but I'm being serious when I say there is no surefire way to ruin this car harder and faster than putting on all season tires.

Run proper summer tires 3 seasons out of the year, if you barely get snow and it just gets cold, find some used all seasons locally on a subaru forum or facebook group and just run them from late December through March. I got a set of Forester alloys with Conti DWS all seasons for transition months for $200 locally.

Yikes. So if I understand correctly, the correct path here is to have summer tires 3/4 of the year and all season tires for 1/4? And both of these would fit
my 17x8 oversteers? Or would it be better to have winter tires?

[churchx]

If you ask about all-seasons or winter tires usage, "correct" (and "best") depends on average weather (and to some extent, worst case scenarios and subjective importance of them, which includes both worst local weather or worst one may see driving cross-climate zones afar to eg. friends/relatives/winter sport hobbies) where one lives/drives, as this is somewhat international forum with users worldwide from different climate zones. Have you stated what weather you have in autumn-winter-spring?

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by churchx

If you ask about all-seasons or winter tires usage, "correct" (and "best") depends on average weather (and to some extent, worst case scenarios and subjective importance of them, which includes both worst local weather or worst one may see driving cross-climate zones afar to eg. friends/relatives/winter sport hobbies) where one lives/drives, as this is somewhat international forum with users worldwide from different climate zones. Have you stated what weather you have in autumn-winter-spring?

Here's some monthly average temperatures. I feel like the lows are high compared to what I remember, but who knows really. I trust the data more than my memory:

EDIT:the table looks awful in the actual post so here's the link : https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...th-average.php

High °F Low °F High °C Low °C
50 33 January 10 0
55 36 February 13 2
64 44 March 18 7
73 53 April 23 12
81 62 May 27 17
89 70 June 32 21
92 74 July 33 23
91 73 August 33 23
85 65 September30 18
74 54 October 24 12
63 44 November 17 7
52 35 December 11 2
73 54 Year 23 12

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by cytogenesis

Yikes. So if I understand correctly, the correct path here is to have summer tires 3/4 of the year and all season tires for 1/4? And both of these would fit
my 17x8 oversteers? Or would it be better to have winter tires?

I highly recommend dedicated wheels too. Every mount and balance is about $50 or so, so cheap stock take offs pay for themselves in 2 years if you can get a set for $200ish, which is very doable, or just run the winters/all seasons on your stock wheels.

Edit: After looking at that table, I'd be confident running a decent all season on your stock wheels, and a proper summer tire on your Oversteers. Those are very mild temps. Since you may get the occasional snow, If you can get a set of Nokian WR3's, and run them as if they were a winter tire I think you'd enjoy the confidence you'd get when the weather does get bad. That said, I have never even been to Tennessee so my tire recommendations may be off. Where I live we average about 3 feet of snow each February, and the temp average is ~13*f, so I hope you understand why I err on the side of caution wrt having the proper tire for the climate! The hotter and more brutal it is in the summer the more you will appreciate a proper dedicated summer tire.

[churchx]

cytogenesis: imho ~ +5C is when summers start to be worse then winters, with zero or below where summer tires might get dangerous. From what you posted, unless you have sudden short term heavy weather changes you want to be extra prepared for or regularly going each year also to colder places .. i'd say just good all seasons of not too wide width for winter months and driving more carefully at rare cases when there abnormally gets colder, ice (especially black ice), snow, and summer tires for spring-summer-autumn. For high +10C, average 0C, low -10C or below would be for me decision point where i'd prefer winter tires to all seasons. Your local weather seems warmer then that.

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

I highly recommend dedicated wheels too. Every mount and balance is about $50 or so, so cheap stock take offs pay for themselves in 2 years if you can get a set for $200ish, which is very doable, or just run the winters/all seasons on your stock wheels.

Edit: After looking at that table, I'd be confident running a decent all season on your stock wheels, and a proper summer tire on your Oversteers. Those are very mild temps. Since you may get the occasional snow, If you can get a set of Nokian WR3's, and run them as if they were a winter tire I think you'd enjoy the confidence you'd get when the weather does get bad. That said, I have never even been to Tennessee so my tire recommendations may be off. Where I live we average about 3 feet of snow each February, and the temp average is ~13*f, so I hope you understand why I err on the side of caution wrt having the proper tire for the climate! The hotter and more brutal it is in the summer the more you will appreciate a proper dedicated summer tire.

Man... I was hoping it would just be easy at this point but regardless I'm happy I asked. I'm getting some slightly mixed opinions so I'll just give my wishlist and hopefully there will be a way to fulfill it.

Essentially, I would like to not have to take my Oversteers off if I can. Ideally I don't want to juggle 2 sets of tires between seasons but if it makes that big of a difference than it'll probably be worth it. So do I just need to get some summer tires and all season tires for winter? What can I do to make that happen if it's possible?

[churchx]

Your oversteers were 17x8? According to manufacturers, for 8" minimum width is 215, ideal 225 or 235, max 245. I'd just get stock sized 215/45/R17 all seasons, eg. michelin pilot A/S 3, and mount them in autumn on wheels, mounting back summers in spring. As bonus, you'll get rebalanced wheels once half a year, as con, will cost a bit extra. If you are not set on keeping oversteer wheels on during winter and wish save a bit, i'd reuse stock wheels for winter.

[JazzleSAURUS]

You don't want to do that.

All the things you're doing now that are expensive upgrades will suddenly become downgrades when you decide to put an all season on your nice new wider wheels.

Put a proper summer on your oversteers and enjoy just how good this car can be. (Unless this car was bought for aesthetics/vanity and you don't care about a good driving experience.)

99% of all seasons, minus maybe the AS3, will be a downgrade from the factory summer tire. I'm sure someone will disagree with me, but the tire manufactures temperature recommendations and use case by model sure don't...

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

You don't want to do that.

All the things you're doing now that are expensive upgrades will suddenly become downgrades when you decide to put an all season on your nice new wider wheels.

Put a proper summer on your oversteers and enjoy just how good this car can be. (Unless this car was bought for aesthetics/vanity and you don't care about a good driving experience.)

99% of all seasons, minus maybe the AS3, will be a downgrade from the factory summer tire. I'm sure someone will disagree with me, but the tire manufactures temperature recommendations and use case by model sure don't...

So what provides a better winter drive then a winter tire or an all season tire? Whichever one is better, which model of that type should I get? Since winter is already here, I'll just get those with my new wheels and then once summer rolls around I'll get my summer tires. I still would like to move forward with keeping the oversteers on all year round and just swapping the tires.

Also, just as a reference for me, what type of tires are the stock tires considered to be? summers/all seasons/winters? I'm just looking to understand what causes such a drastic difference in performance.

[JazzleSAURUS]

The best winter tire is one appropriate for your climate. If you only get cold weather, down to 32 degrees and some rain, I think a 'regular' all season is a good tire to switch to, (Maybe a Conti DWS, or a General RT43 if you need to be cheap). If you get the occasional snowfall of an inch, maybe once or twice, and still rarely dip down into freezing, something like a WR3 is an awesome choice. It's an all season tire made by Nokian meant to be a snow tire that's dialed back to an all season, as opposed to an all season that just has deeper tread to accommodate occasional snowfall.

If your winter spends a decent amount of time below freezing, (more than just a few days here and there,) it's time to consider a proper winter tire. If you get minimal snow, and you're primarily concerned about temperatures and ice, a tire like the Michelin XIce 3 is an amazing choice. It will also do really well in some decent snowfall.

If you have slushy-freezy roads that you have to drive on, the XIce 3, and Blizzak type tires are still great choices, but in some of these slushy conditions I've found their tighter voids can sometimes have difficulty clearing, which is when the more Finnish style winter tire comes into it's element.

If you get lots of snow, heavy downfall, unplowed and packed roads, AND have to contend with ice and slushy nonsense, the Finnish style winter tires REALLY shine. On a budget, stuff like the Altimax Arctic, (and now Arctic 12,) are based on tires that were revolutionary when they launched, and tires like the Hakkapaliitta R2 are both funny to say, and are absolute monsters in just about any condition.

If you can describe your worst-case, and average winter driving conditions I think I can best help you select an appropriate tire.

The stock tires on 86's are a low rolling resistance summer tire. It's a high quality tire though many around these parts poo-poo it because it doesn't offer a ton of grip, which is very decidedly NOT the point of the tire. Engineers chose a tire that offered a lot of communication and feedback, good fuel economy and wear, and specifically offered a low grip threshold so people could learn the joys of a fairly low-grip tire on a very well tuned, lower power vehicle.

Swapping the tires over twice a year is $50-60 each time, it adds up quick, and you already have your OEM wheels. Having dedicated wheels and tires saves money, especially if you already have them, and allows you to have a spare set of wheels if you curb a wheel or bust a tire and need to make it to a payday before buying a replacement.

The drastic performance difference is based largely on rubber tech and tread design. Different formulations of the rubber can perform well within a certain temperature and condition range. Some forumlations really only do well when it's above 50 degrees and dry, these rubber formulations will be found on extreme performance tires and track day tires. Some do well above 40 and aren't bothered much by the wet, these are the typical good summer tire like a PSS and an S-04 I've talked about a bunch here. All seasons generally do well between 65 degrees and 35 degrees. When they get above that point they get a bit greasy and unpredictable, when they get below that they start to get hard and give up grip. Their tread pattern is often a compromise too, it's meant for around 50 degrees usually, but they make the tread taller to have deeper voids to accommodate the snow. This is why I refer to them as 'no-seasons'. They really don't do well anywhere. Winter tires are of an even softer compound, so above 45 they start to get greasy, but tend to perform well all the way down to 0f, sometimes lower. They often have larger voids, tons of siping, silica carbide 'teeth' molded into the tread to grip icey spots, provisions for studs, etc.

Knowing what you're up against will help you pick the proper tire.

[JazzleSAURUS]

What might help is imagine how you'd dress for a beach day, versus a day shoveling out your drive way. Neither is practical for the other. In the middle you're wearing jeans, a flannel, and sneakers. Practical fall attire, but you're still going to melt on the beach and freeze in the winter.

[cytogenesis]

Originally Posted by JazzleSAURUS

The best winter tire is one appropriate for your climate. If you only get cold weather, down to 32 degrees and some rain, I think a 'regular' all season is a good tire to switch to, (Maybe a Conti DWS, or a General RT43 if you need to be cheap). If you get the occasional snowfall of an inch, maybe once or twice, and still rarely dip down into freezing, something like a WR3 is an awesome choice. It's an all season tire made by Nokian meant to be a snow tire that's dialed back to an all season, as opposed to an all season that just has deeper tread to accommodate occasional snowfall.

If your winter spends a decent amount of time below freezing, (more than just a few days here and there,) it's time to consider a proper winter tire. If you get minimal snow, and you're primarily concerned about temperatures and ice, a tire like the Michelin XIce 3 is an amazing choice. It will also do really well in some decent snowfall.

If you have slushy-freezy roads that you have to drive on, the XIce 3, and Blizzak type tires are still great choices, but in some of these slushy conditions I've found their tighter voids can sometimes have difficulty clearing, which is when the more Finnish style winter tire comes into it's element.

If you get lots of snow, heavy downfall, unplowed and packed roads, AND have to contend with ice and slushy nonsense, the Finnish style winter tires REALLY shine. On a budget, stuff like the Altimax Arctic, (and now Arctic 12,) are based on tires that were revolutionary when they launched, and tires like the Hakkapaliitta R2 are both funny to say, and are absolute monsters in just about any condition.

If you can describe your worst-case, and average winter driving conditions I think I can best help you select an appropriate tire.

The stock tires on 86's are a low rolling resistance summer tire. It's a high quality tire though many around these parts poo-poo it because it doesn't offer a ton of grip, which is very decidedly NOT the point of the tire. Engineers chose a tire that offered a lot of communication and feedback, good fuel economy and wear, and specifically offered a low grip threshold so people could learn the joys of a fairly low-grip tire on a very well tuned, lower power vehicle.

Swapping the tires over twice a year is $50-60 each time, it adds up quick, and you already have your OEM wheels. Having dedicated wheels and tires saves money, especially if you already have them, and allows you to have a spare set of wheels if you curb a wheel or bust a tire and need to make it to a payday before buying a replacement.

The drastic performance difference is based largely on rubber tech and tread design. Different formulations of the rubber can perform well within a certain temperature and condition range. Some forumlations really only do well when it's above 50 degrees and dry, these rubber formulations will be found on extreme performance tires and track day tires. Some do well above 40 and aren't bothered much by the wet, these are the typical good summer tire like a PSS and an S-04 I've talked about a bunch here. All seasons generally do well between 65 degrees and 35 degrees. When they get above that point they get a bit greasy and unpredictable, when they get below that they start to get hard and give up grip. Their tread pattern is often a compromise too, it's meant for around 50 degrees usually, but they make the tread taller to have deeper voids to accommodate the snow. This is why I refer to them as 'no-seasons'. They really don't do well anywhere. Winter tires are of an even softer compound, so above 45 they start to get greasy, but tend to perform well all the way down to 0f, sometimes lower. They often have larger voids, tons of siping, silica carbide 'teeth' molded into the tread to grip icey spots, provisions for studs, etc.

Knowing what you're up against will help you pick the proper tire.

If I'm going to have 2 sets of tires, I'll probably be ok with just rotating out the tires rather than going back to stock wheels every winter. I don't mind the charge twice a year, it's worth keeping the new wheels on it for me.

I'll try to give as best of a summary as I can to help you help me decide what the 2 sets of tires are I should get. We typically only have like a few days of snowfall a year, and it usually doesn't stay on the ground for very long. Worst case I would say like 6 inches of snow with most of it being gone probably by the next day. I think the biggest worry here is ice/black ice which I'd say we get more often.

For summer tires, are there any differences between the S-O4's or the super sports?

One last thing, I contacted my Subaru dealership about the 14mm crash bolts and they told me they were strictly aftermarket... Is that normal?

[JazzleSAURUS]

Originally Posted by cytogenesis

If I'm going to have 2 sets of tires, I'll probably be ok with just rotating out the tires rather than going back to stock wheels every winter. I don't mind the charge twice a year, it's worth keeping the new wheels on it for me.

I'll try to give as best of a summary as I can to help you help me decide what the 2 sets of tires are I should get. We typically only have like a few days of snowfall a year, and it usually doesn't stay on the ground for very long. Worst case I would say like 6 inches of snow with most of it being gone probably by the next day. I think the biggest worry here is ice/black ice which I'd say we get more often.

For summer tires, are there any differences between the S-O4's or the super sports?

One last thing, I contacted my Subaru dealership about the 14mm crash bolts and they told me they were strictly aftermarket... Is that normal?

Re swapping: that's your call. The way I see it, your wheels can look slightly worse for a couple months and you know you'll never slide your pretty ones into a curb on black ice.

If your primary concern is black ice, grab the michelin XIce3 off tire rack asap, there's a $70 mail in rebate making them around $350+shipping in many sizes which is an insane deal imo!

S-04 has a stiffer sidewall and slightly softer tread, PSS has a more uniform stiffness through the tire. Both will be excellent summer tire choices.

Many Subaru parts departments are really unaware of what they have. Just ask for 2 x 901000394 and corresponding nut. If they say that's 'strictly aftermarket' ask them to search for an M14x60 bolt and corresponding nut, then make them repeat back the part number so you can laugh at them.