Wheel stud/lug nuts issues: need recommendations

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by TMF

"are you sure you're not doing something wrong when you put the wheels on??" I was just trying to show that I'm not a complete idiot and avoid some pointless posts in the thread.

Well guess what, some people think you're doing it wrong.

Breaking the lugs loose by hand is the generally accepted way to treat your car nicely.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by TMF

And no, none of these lug nuts have been cross threaded. I always put them on by hand to ensure they are not cross threaded. I'm assuming the lug nuts have seized due to damaged threads, contamination from metal shards, dirt, etc, or just over-heat cycled.

All I'm saying is you need to look at your methods first. You are using impact to gun the lugs off, and it's clearly causing some damage.

I use an impact gun to take off my lugs but usually after I break them loose by hand. Including the BRZ I've probably averaged a wheel removal/install at least 3-4 times a month in the last 20+ years. I think I've broken maybe 5 studs in my life, 4 of them were ARP.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Well guess what, some people think you're doing it wrong.

Breaking the lugs loose by hand is the generally accepted way to treat your car nicely.

So removing lug nuts using an impact in incorrect? Then myself, as well as millions of people, race teams, etc having been doing it wrong for years!!!

WTF is the purpose of an impact wrench if you can't use it to loosen a nut?

I agree that putting on lug nuts with an impact and over torquing them is in fact incorrect. That will stretch the threads and cause them to fail.

There are lots of people reporting issues with the wheel studs on the twins, so I don't think I'm an anomaly here.

Originally Posted by mav1178

All I'm saying is you need to look at your methods first. You are using impact to gun the lugs off, and it's clearly causing some damage.

I use an impact gun to take off my lugs but usually after I break them loose by hand. Including the BRZ I've probably averaged a wheel removal/install at least 3-4 times a month in the last 20+ years. I think I've broken maybe 5 studs in my life, 4 of them were ARP.

I've also been installing/removing wheels several times a month for about the last ~5 years or so. Never had a problem until recently. I am open to suggestions, which is why I created this thread.

The puzzling part of the last seized lug that I had (and had to break the stud) was that I hand threaded the nut (to test if it would go on smoothly) onto a bare hub, no wheel, and I did not tighten it to the hub. I then simply spun off the loose lug nut using my impact wrench, and that is when it seized. It makes no sense, but that's what happened. My initial thought was the lug nuts (loose tolerances?) and that is why I was curious if others have had issues with the Muteki's.

However as several have pointed out, it could have still be damaged threads from either me being careless when I'm putting the wheel on and damaging threads, there were contaminates in the threads, or the wheel studs are past their useful life.

So in conclusion, I will be:

-replacing all studs with ARP's (and installing with a press so I do not stretch threads)
-finding new lug nuts
-being more careful when putting the wheel on the studs
-changing the way I re-torque the wheels
-cleaning the threads on the stud and lug nut periodically
-I might even send out my torque wrenches for calibration, just for good measure
-hopefully not seizing any more lug nuts!

[iLuveKetchup]

I've had my FRS for less than a month and already broke 3 studs. I bought my car used from a Toyota dealer and wouldn't be surprised if they over torqued them. I've since replaced the studs with extended ARP.

I'd go with steel lug nuts. 949, as someone recommended in a previous post, only comes in 1.5 pitch. I'm using Evasive 1.25 lug nuts. Just FYI, I don't think Evasive sells them individually should you need just a couple as spares/replacements.

[Ribface]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

949, as someone recommended in a previous post, only comes in 1.5 pitch

949 lug nuts come in 12x1.25. I have ordered a set.

http://949racing.com/forged-alloy-lu...er-12x125.aspx

[cjd]

One thing I have noticed is that the socket can chatter and doesn't always spin concentrically with the impact. No idea if that plays a role - I got 3 full seasons with at least 120 wheel swaps (before/after each event, but also for working on the car, swap to winter, etc)

I always hand start, and use a breaker bar to start. Impact to spin off at a somewhat slow speed, and hold the socket to keep it from chattering. Reverse to install.

I have used the cheap lugs TR sent with my winter setup, Wedsport lugs, and Muteki lugs in this time.

C

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by TMF

So removing lug nuts using an impact in incorrect? Then myself, as well as millions of people, race teams, etc having been doing it wrong for years!!!

Race teams replace studs every race, I don't want to do that so I mount and dismount my wheels gently. I recall stripping studs was a regular problem in NASCAR, this year it appears they're handing out dozens of stiff penalties for teams crossing the finish line with unsecure lugs, shame it doesn't mention whether they're under torqued or stripped out.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/sp...volve-lug-nuts

Just because millions of people do something doesn't make it ok.

I agree with mav, breaker bar to loosen ~1/4 turn by hand, jack the car off and use the impact to save some time removing the lug.

[tony_r]

Impacting them off is not the problem. Impacting them on, is.

Typically don't impact off because everyone is using a battery operated gun.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by cjd

One thing I have noticed is that the socket can chatter and doesn't always spin concentrically with the impact. No idea if that plays a role - I got 3 full seasons with at least 120 wheel swaps (before/after each event, but also for working on the car, swap to winter, etc)

I always hand start, and use a breaker bar to start. Impact to spin off at a somewhat slow speed, and hold the socket to keep it from chattering. Reverse to install.

I have used the cheap lugs TR sent with my winter setup, Wedsport lugs, and Muteki lugs in this time.

C

Touche, good point. I agree, I think sometimes when the lug nut is spinning off, esp at high speeds, that it could be spinning eccentrically and get cross-threaded. Perhaps spinning at a slower speed and holding the socket will help.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Race teams replace studs every race, I don't want to do that so I mount and dismount my wheels gently. I recall stripping studs was a regular problem in NASCAR, this year it appears they're handing out dozens of stiff penalties for teams crossing the finish line with unsecure lugs, shame it doesn't mention whether they're under torqued or stripped out.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/sp...volve-lug-nuts

Just because millions of people do something doesn't make it ok.

I agree with mav, breaker bar to loosen ~1/4 turn by hand, jack the car off and use the impact to save some time removing the lug.

I don't know why I'm still arguing this lol. It is "the internet" after all #srsbzness I'm always up for a good argument/discussion though.

I do agree with you, that just because a bunch of people do something, doesn't make it right.

However I doubt that race teams are replacing their wheel studs after every race. My own WRL race team doesn't replace studs every race...they've only been replaced once with aftermarket studs. The car has been raced for 6 years, we use an impact, and never broken one to my knowledge.

I also appreciate the article...a good reference always makes a better argument. However if you read the whole article, it does state some of the common reasons for missing lug nuts:

"In 2015, NASCAR stopped policing how many lug nuts the teams were using, then took heat from some drivers and crew chiefs after some crews began using fewer than the standard five to save time during pit stops."

"“It puts a lot of pressure on the tire guys,” said Sawyer. “From time to time they’ll miss a lug nut or two lug nuts.”"

Sounds to me like they skip lug nuts to save time, or they get missed during the pit stop the ruckus. The article doesn't mention anything about wheel studs or seized lug nuts, but I'm guessing that wheel studs do break occasionally.

Anyway, I'm going to continue using my impact to take of my lug nuts. If I still have issues with my "new" wheel replacement process and still seize lug nuts and break wheel studs, I'll be happy to report back.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by Ribface

949 lug nuts come in 12x1.25. I have ordered a set.

http://949racing.com/forged-alloy-lu...er-12x125.aspx

hmm don't know how I missed this. Thanks

[TMF]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

hmm don't know how I missed this. Thanks

They are aluminum. However I will say that we've been using these on our WRL car, and we have not had any issues.

Their ad does specifically state that these are safe for impacts...maybe 19mm lug nuts vs 17mm is the secret.

[ka-t_240]

Have used the same set of Muteki sr48 lugs for 5 years, 30-40 track days 50+ autox events. Both on Hoosiers and 200tw tires. I have not had a lug or stud failure of any kind. The lugs came from my old STI, and have continued use on my BRZ. The BRZ now is full arp for other reasons, but, never broke a stock stud.

[ka-t_240]

If looking for shorter than ARP but longer than OEM, Nismo also makes studs. They will work on these cars, but they are 2x the price of ARP.

Fun Note: BRZ extended studs work in a R35 GTR.

[TMF]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

Have used the same set of Muteki sr48 lugs for 5 years, 30-40 track days 50+ autox events. Both on Hoosiers and 200tw tires. I have not had a lug or stud failure of any kind. The lugs came from my old STI, and have continued use on my BRZ. The BRZ now is full arp for other reasons, but, never broke a stock stud.

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

If looking for shorter than ARP but longer than OEM, Nismo also makes studs. They will work on these cars, but they are 2x the price of ARP.

Fun Note: BRZ extended studs work in a R35 GTR.

Thanks for the info man! Glad to hear the Muteki's are still working for you. I think I might try the 949's though since I no longer have a full set of Muteki's and I don't think you can buy singles.

And ARP does have 3 different lengths for studs now. I might just go with the longest ones so I have flexibility to run spacers if needed in the future.