Precision turbo 5431 or Garrett Turbo GT2860R

[Donovan34]

Hey guys I have an opportunity to upgrade my turbo from a PTE 4831 to either the gt2860 or the PTE 5431. The upgrade for PTE would free or the GT would be a $300 more. Can't decide just let me know the pros and cons. Is it worth it to get the Garrett.

[Amputechture]

GT28 hands fucking down. You'd be a complete dumbshit not to. $300 is next to nothing to pay for the amount of transient response you are going to gain with a ball bearing turbo. Although I was under the impression it was a $500 upgrade.

What are your power goals anyways? If you're running the JDL kit and seriously can't afford the upgrade, which I'm assuming you're shopping based on the turbos mentioned, and not looking to make more than 400 you'd be better off with the PTE 4831.

[Donovan34]

yeah it was 500 upgrade but there some behind scene fucks up with my kit so they offer 300 for it. I'm just looking to push 300-350 hp. Of course I can afford it honestly haven't done my homework so I really didn't know the difference.

[Amputechture]

Originally Posted by Donovan34

yeah it was 500 upgrade but there some behind scene fucks up with my kit so they offer 300 for it. I'm just looking to push 300-350 hp. Of course I can afford it honestly haven't done my homework so I really didn't know the difference.

Getting a disco potato for only $300 more is an absolute steal man! Ball bearing turbos require less oil to properly lubricate them, and because of less oil volume the seals last longer.

The biggest benefit to them though is the transient throttle response you get with them, they get into boost quicker and get back into boost in off/on partial throttle situations. A good ball bearing setup that is properly sized can feel almost as crisp as a supercharger setup.

[Donovan34]

Dang well looks like I know what I'm getting lol. Thanks for the feedback. I just wanted to make sure the 300 was worth it. Since I'm a little over budget at the moment.

[Amputechture]

I know the feeling. I was overbudget myself, and I opted for the base journal bearing turbo which I seriously regret. Although at the time, it was a $900 upgrade as they were only offering the GTX series.

[Donovan34]

Originally Posted by Amputechture

I know the feeling. I was overbudget myself, and I opted for the base journal bearing turbo which I seriously regret. Although at the time, it was a $900 upgrade as they were only offering the GTX series.

What was so bad about the journal bearing turbo. And how's your kit holding up anything I should know about it.

[Amputechture]

Originally Posted by Donovan34

What was so bad about the journal bearing turbo. And how's your kit holding up anything I should know about it.

It burns quite a bit of oil, and the transient throttle response leaves much to be desired. It's a small turbo, so the boost threshold is pretty low (About 3,800 RPM/ 4K depending on scenario)....it is very responsive in that regard. But, on/off and off/on throttle sweeps it feels very slow to respond and robotic. It's a hard feeling to describe, and it can't be quantified in numbers or on a dynograph. Here are a few different 'behavoirs' it exhibits that might give you an idea of what I'm talking about


-3rd or 4th gear maybe, driving at normal road/non-highway speeds of 30-45 mph. If someone pulls in front of me which requires stabbing the brakes or letting off the throttle....it feels like all of the wind is blown from the sails and it takes a few solid seconds of gradually easing back into the gas pedal in order for it to pressurize the charge and for it to have any balls


-Slow shifting, you have to shift fairly fast to keep the car in boost or else it will lose it. A ball bearing turbo is able to 'recover' from this much quicker than JBs.

[Amputechture]

As far as the kit itself here are some of my experiences:


The Bad news:
-My kit had a bad weld where the BOV flange is welded on the intercooler end tank. I knew I had a bad boost leak, and it forever to figure out this is where it was. My IAM kept dropping and the car ran like shit the first few months it was very frustrating. Got it tig welded and it's been okay since.
-I have the original version (it's actually the 2nd version even though they are calling the third iteration which is it's current form the "V2"...1st version had the BOV on the charge pipe). The MAF location of my kit is in a less than ideal spot....right after a couple slight bends which causes turbulence in the readings. It's another contributing factor to my sluggish throttle response. James with HRI was able to get my car dialed in and the drive-ability is pretty damn good now, but I was tuned by 3 others before him and none of them could get it right. You won't have to worry about this as the MAF location in the new version is, according to James, placed very well and should have zero problems with MAF reading accurately.
-The downpipe is slightly touching the camshaft angle sensor on exhaust bank 2, it's a very common problem (and not just for the JDL kit). Make sure you get some heat reflectant foil to wrap around the sensor and the wiring.


The good news:
-Built extremely well, I have no doubts it will stand the test of time.
-If I'm above the boost threshold, all of the response issues I've mentioned above are negated and out the door. If I apply throttle once I'm out of vacuum, absolute fucking instant V8 power. So basically anytime I'm actually driving aggressively, which is when I need it to respond, it responds. If I had a BB turbo, that 3,800 to 4,000 RPM line in the sand would probably drop to around 3,400 to 3,600 RPM and the in vacuum/below threshold response wouldn't be as bad.
-Outside of the cam sensor thing, everything fits great


I don't regret anything, outside of the fact that I should have gotten a proper boost-leak test with a smoke machine right off of the bat so that I could have avoided a lot of headaches. If my car got totaled and I had to get another twin and go through the FI build process again...I would still choose JDL.

[Donovan34]

Originally Posted by Amputechture

As far as the kit itself here are some of my experiences:


The Bad news:
-My kit had a bad weld where the BOV flange is welded on the intercooler end tank. I knew I had a bad boost leak, and it forever to figure out this is where it was. My IAM kept dropping and the car ran like shit the first few months it was very frustrating. Got it tig welded and it's been okay since.
-I have the original version (it's actually the 2nd version even though they are calling the third iteration which is it's current form the "V2"...1st version had the BOV on the charge pipe). The MAF location of my kit is in a less than ideal spot....right after a couple slight bends which causes turbulence in the readings. It's another contributing factor to my sluggish throttle response. James with HRI was able to get my car dialed in and the drive-ability is pretty damn good now, but I was tuned by 3 others before him and none of them could get it right. You won't have to worry about this as the MAF location in the new version is, according to James, placed very well and should have zero problems with MAF reading accurately.
-The downpipe is slightly touching the camshaft angle sensor on exhaust bank 2, it's a very common problem (and not just for the JDL kit). Make sure you get some heat reflectant foil to wrap around the sensor and the wiring.


The good news:
-Built extremely well, I have no doubts it will stand the test of time.
-If I'm above the boost threshold, all of the response issues I've mentioned above are negated and out the door. If I apply throttle once I'm out of vacuum, absolute fucking instant V8 power. So basically anytime I'm actually driving aggressively, which is when I need it to respond, it responds. If I had a BB turbo, that 3,800 to 4,000 RPM line in the sand would probably drop to around 3,400 to 3,600 RPM and the in vacuum/below threshold response wouldn't be as bad.
-Outside of the cam sensor thing, everything fits great


I don't regret anything, outside of the fact that I should have gotten a proper boost-leak test with a smoke machine right off of the bat so that I could have avoided a lot of headaches. If my car got totaled and I had to get another twin and go through the FI build process again...I would still choose JDL.

Thanks for the respond. Yeah I can't wait to finally get it installed. It's been a month since I got the kit but I just been waiting for that turbo. From what you say the experience should be great. Curious how much power are you making? Stock block?. I've gotten ill the supporting mods that I think will help it out such as catch cans and an oil cooler. But I am worried about having a heating issue because I didn't get ceramic coating on the hot side of the turbo kit. Any problems with heat? Like you said I'll probably get some foil to protect the wiring from heat. But I don't want to run to any issue when the kits on. Also curious if you installed your kit yourself or did you let a shop do it. I'm sort on the fence between the two. Also do you recommend anything else to go along with the kit like support mods? Thanks for the help with all this.

[Amputechture]

Originally Posted by Donovan34

Thanks for the respond. Yeah I can't wait to finally get it installed. It's been a month since I got the kit but I just been waiting for that turbo. From what you say the experience should be great. Curious how much power are you making? Stock block?. I've gotten ill the supporting mods that I think will help it out such as catch cans and an oil cooler. But I am worried about having a heating issue because I didn't get ceramic coating on the hot side of the turbo kit. Any problems with heat? Like you said I'll probably get some foil to protect the wiring from heat. But I don't want to run to any issue when the kits on. Also curious if you installed your kit yourself or did you let a shop do it. I'm sort on the fence between the two. Also do you recommend anything else to go along with the kit like support mods? Thanks for the help with all this.

NP man, glad to help.
Power-Making around 300, maybe a little over. I've only been on a dynograph once, and it put down 289/229 on a mustang dyno that reads stock twins around 155whp, but that was when I was tuned by Bob from Circuit. It was an absolute shit tune. I went through James at HRI tuning last spring and it's much better, and feels a little bit more powerful so I have no idea what I'm making exactly...but I've never seen anyone with a comparable setup to mine make more than 310 or so on 93 octane.


Install- I installed it myself, but I had quite a bit of help from a friend that is very mechanically inclined. I know my way around a car and could have done it myself but it would have taken much longer, and I would have had a lot of trouble cutting the crash beam. That shit took like 3 hours because all we had was a little handheld circular saw.


Heat problems- Not really, I'm not trying to make it a racecar, just a quick street car. It will only ever see the track once I have another vehicle and this one retires from daily duty to the weekend. I have the following cooling related modifications; JDL Fan Shroud, the SPAL fans that come with the kit, FA20DIT Water-to-Oil Cooler, DEI turbo blanket, the manifold/downpipe/overpipe is header-wrapped, and the charge pipe and MAF wiring has DEI heat tape on it. My coolant temps are exactly the same as when NA, and my oil temps are usually around 215 I've seen it spike to 240 before but it recovers pretty quickly.


Supporting stuff- Outside of what I mentioned above, I use a vented catch can on both sides and deleted the pcv valve. That's about it for 'reliability' modifications that I can think of. I hardly ever catch any oil in it, some cars produce more blowby than others I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones. My clutch started slipping in the higher gears a couple of months ago, and now it's starting to slip even in 2nd/3rd at times. I have an Exedy St 1 to put in, I would probably do clutch at the same time because you will have to eventually unless you are going to run low boost. Stock block yes, I plan to drive this car until the wheels fall off. I would like to put 12.5:1 or maybe even 13:1 JE pistons in when my motor goes to hell but I have a six month old so that probably won't happen...but maybe it will if I play my cards right and the stars align for me.

[ShadowReaper]

Originally Posted by Amputechture

NP man, glad to help.
Power-Making around 300, maybe a little over. I've only been on a dynograph once, and it put down 289/229 on a mustang dyno that reads stock twins around 155whp, but that was when I was tuned by Bob from Circuit. It was an absolute shit tune. I went through James at HRI tuning last spring and it's much better, and feels a little bit more powerful so I have no idea what I'm making exactly...but I've never seen anyone with a comparable setup to mine make more than 310 or so on 93 octane.


Install- I installed it myself, but I had quite a bit of help from a friend that is very mechanically inclined. I know my way around a car and could have done it myself but it would have taken much longer, and I would have had a lot of trouble cutting the crash beam. That shit took like 3 hours because all we had was a little handheld circular saw.


Heat problems- Not really, I'm not trying to make it a racecar, just a quick street car. It will only ever see the track once I have another vehicle and this one retires from daily duty to the weekend. I have the following cooling related modifications; JDL Fan Shroud, the SPAL fans that come with the kit, FA20DIT Water-to-Oil Cooler, DEI turbo blanket, the manifold/downpipe/overpipe is header-wrapped, and the charge pipe and MAF wiring has DEI heat tape on it. My coolant temps are exactly the same as when NA, and my oil temps are usually around 215 I've seen it spike to 240 before but it recovers pretty quickly.


Supporting stuff- Outside of what I mentioned above, I use a vented catch can on both sides and deleted the pcv valve. That's about it for 'reliability' modifications that I can think of. I hardly ever catch any oil in it, some cars produce more blowby than others I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones. My clutch started slipping in the higher gears a couple of months ago, and now it's starting to slip even in 2nd/3rd at times. I have an Exedy St 1 to put in, I would probably do clutch at the same time because you will have to eventually unless you are going to run low boost. Stock block yes, I plan to drive this car until the wheels fall off. I would like to put 12.5:1 or maybe even 13:1 JE pistons in when my motor goes to hell but I have a six month old so that probably won't happen...but maybe it will if I play my cards right and the stars align for me.

I'm jealous that you are so local to James... Im ordering the kit to Georgia, that's why I am debating getting supporting mods now while the kit is being assembled because I assume evidently If I instal and tune the kit then get injectors fuel pump catch can AFTER, I would have to go right back to James no?

[Amputechture]

Originally Posted by ShadowReaper

I'm jealous that you are so local to James... Im ordering the kit to Georgia, that's why I am debating getting supporting mods now while the kit is being assembled because I assume evidently If I instal and tune the kit then get injectors fuel pump catch can AFTER, I would have to go right back to James no?

Fuel pump and catch can will have no bearing on your tune, but injectors will. What kind of setup are you going to run that will require injectors?

[ShadowReaper]

Originally Posted by Amputechture

Fuel pump and catch can will have no bearing on your tune, but injectors will. What kind of setup are you going to run that will require injectors?

Ok good to know. After more research, I found I don't need injectors. Only looking for 270 - 300 whp