twins vs last gen cayman?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Not sure why you think that. They're really not that similar.

Overall gear ratios (gear x final drive) for a BRZ (pre-2017) are as follows:

1st - 14.866:1
2nd - 8.97
3rd - 6.314
4th - 4.973
5th - 4.10
6th - 3.145

Same for 987 Cayman S:

1st - 12.84 (14% taller)
2nd - 7.57 (16% taller)
3rd - 5.47 (14% taller)
4th - 4.38
5th - 3.76
6th - 3.18


...
There's a very simple explanation for why the Cayman's gearing is this tall - so that it's not competitive with the 911. For example, here's the 911's gearing from a year comparable to the above 987. Keeping in mind, that usually a more powerful car (i.e. this 911) has taller gearing:

1st - 13.45
2nd - 7.98
3rd - 5.366
4th - 4.403
5th - 3.715
6th - 3.027

It's quite obvious from comparing the 911 to the Cayman that the Cayman was intentionally given taller 1st and 2nd gears so as to not accelerate as fast (or faster) than a 911.

We are saying the same thing. Gearbox ratios are almost same, the main difference is in the final drive ratio (4.1 vs. 3.8). If you multiply per gear then you get as you mentioned these numbers.

I am not sure why 911 has different gearing, but their engines are much stronger and I don't think they need to play with gearing to be more competitive. Maybe they wanted Cayman to be easier to drive in 1st and 2nd gear and not to be very aggressive. In my point of view, Cayman is the entry level car and the 911 is the one for the serious owners. I've seen many grandmoms and retired people buying a Boxster/Cayman just because it is the cheaper car in the price catalog. Usually such people will go for shopping with the car or some relaxing weekend trip. It was their life dream to own a Porsche and it is a way to afford it.

[new2subaru]

@ 86 South Africa

I'm not sure why I can't quote you. Yes, I'm aware of that. If I boost I think I will be choosing the Vortech. From what I've read, the power delivery is very similar to stock, which I would like to keep. I like high revs

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

@ 86 South Africa

I'm not sure why I can't quote you. Yes, I'm aware of that. If I boost I think I will be choosing the Vortech. From what I've read, the power delivery is very similar to stock, which I would like to keep. I like high revs

I am sure you will read more before making your decision. But to give you a heads-up, there are really two options in the latest supercharger technology: Eaton or Rotrex. Eaton is a twin screw configuration that gives more instant power at lower rpm. Rotrex is more efficient than Eaton (almost equal to Turbo) and gives more power at higher rpm. Rotrex's efficiency is due to extremely high revolution in the compressor which can exceed 100k rpm using a gearless traction-drive mechanism. Vortech works and reliable and all that but it still uses inefficient, outdated, gear-driven technology.

Based on my experience with Rotrex-based JRSC system, I can tell you that, if you want to keep the power delivery characteristics similar to stock, go with Rotrex. The power is delivered at higher rpm with impressively linear power and flat torque curves. This also helps with fuel efficiency when you don't demand power. When I drive like stock, I still get the same mpg.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by mrg666

I am sure you will read more before making your decision. But to give you a heads-up, there are really two options in the latest supercharger technology: Eaton or Rotrex. Eaton is a twin screw configuration that gives more instant power at lower rpm. Rotrex is more efficient than Eaton (almost equal to Turbo) and gives more power at higher rpm. Rotrex's efficiency is due to extremely high revolution in the compressor which can exceed 100k rpm using a gearless traction-drive mechanism. Vortech works and reliable and all that but it still uses inefficient, outdated, gear-driven technology.

Based on my experience with Rotrex-based JRSC system, I can tell you that, if you want to keep the power delivery characteristics similar to stock, go with Rotrex. The power is delivered at higher rpm with impressively linear power and flat torque curves. This also helps with fuel efficiency when you don't demand power. When I drive like stock, I still get the same mpg.

Thanks for the reply. I do understand that the Vortech isn't quite what a Rotrex kit is, it would still suit my needs. I have a real problem with the appearance of the JRSC and the Kraftwerks kits. I'm willing to sacrifice some power for looks.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Thanks for the reply. I do understand that the Vortech isn't quite what a Rotrex kit is, it would still suit my needs. I have a real problem with the appearance of the JRSC and the Kraftwerks kits. I'm willing to sacrifice some power for looks.

I understand the "looks" concern. And I agree that Rotrex kits are not really about looks. For the same reason, I went back and forth with Edelbrock too. When I remember how I installed the JRSC kit though, I have no regrets. It was so stupid simple that I can tell the design was genius. Drive experience is another story that you can only believe me if you drive it. Best of luck to you!

[strmshadow84]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The FD is one of my favorite designs ever. Honestly I'd be perfectly happy with an FD with the original engine as well. The FD is one of the best handling cars ever built and the LS engine swap doesn't upset that balance much. Done properly you still have a car that's several hundred pounds lighter than a Corvette.

I say go for it, I've had all 3, Ls swapped FD is the sweet spot that the Cayman can't get to. Was slightly dissatisfied with the low power of the BRZ, and was constantly thinking of how good the Cayman could have been if Porsche didn't handicap it. The FD is light, small, fast, and very mod-able compared to the Cayman which suffers from gearing issues and not being able to tune/mod without throwing your wallet at it.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I am not sure why 911 has different gearing, but their engines are much stronger and I don't think they need to play with gearing to be more competitive. Maybe they wanted Cayman to be easier to drive in 1st and 2nd gear and not to be very aggressive. In my point of view, Cayman is the entry level car and the 911 is the one for the serious owners. I've seen many grandmoms and retired people buying a Boxster/Cayman just because it is the cheaper car in the price catalog. Usually such people will go for shopping with the car or some relaxing weekend trip. It was their life dream to own a Porsche and it is a way to afford it.

Not sure if it was intentional (don't think it was) but this is basically trolling. And there is a serious dose of ignorance in the above statement but I don't have to the time to address it at the moment. Maybe later.

[strmshadow84]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Not sure if it was intentional (don't think it was) but this is basically trolling. And there is a serious dose of ignorance in the above statement but I don't have to the time to address it at the moment. Maybe later.

I'll do it for you. The 981S and GTS had the same engine as the 911 and technically they have the same gearing other then the Final Drive which gives the 911 line about a 10% increase in torque all throughout the range. As others say they did it to keep that separation between the 911 and the Cayman. If the Cayman outperformed the 911 it would probably piss all of the guys that buy the 911 for that extra prestige off and steal sales from the 911.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Not sure if it was intentional (don't think it was) but this is basically trolling. And there is a serious dose of ignorance in the above statement but I don't have to the time to address it at the moment. Maybe later.

Originally Posted by strmshadow84

I'll do it for you. The 981S and GTS had the same engine as the 911 and technically they have the same gearing other then the Final Drive which gives the 911 line about a 10% increase in torque all throughout the range. As others say they did it to keep that separation between the 911 and the Cayman. If the Cayman outperformed the 911 it would probably piss all of the guys that buy the 911 for that extra prestige off and steal sales from the 911.

I have no doubt of what you saying. I am also aware that they transfer some 911 technology to the Cayman's. What I'm saying is that if I'll see 10 Porsches (I exclude the Panamera's, Cayenne's etc.) the 8 of them will be 911's. At least in Germany.

These are the sales figures in Europe:



In Germany, I believe the difference is even larger than these stats and similar to what I see every day.

I don't live in US, so I don't have an opinion of what is going there.

[strmshadow84]

You'll see more 911's I believe, because it's all about prestige. 911 has a lot more prestige then the Cayman/Boxster, which is used as a entry level vehicle. No one in a 911 wants to been shown up by a entry level vehicle, so they cater to their buyers that spend more "money" to dictate the performance levels. I mean the Cayman is lighter, smaller and I believe stiffer than a 911, there's no reason that with the same hp that they shouldn't be beating them at pretty much every track.

Also the Cayman S-GTS and base 911's have the exact same engine, the only difference is the tune that they give the 911 and the Cayman.

[WolfpackS2k]

The great irony is that, of modern 911s, the most coveted model is the 993. Which recent Porsche sports car is most similar to the 993 in power, size and weight? The 987 and 981 Caymans.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

The great irony is that, of modern 911s, the most coveted model is the 993. Which recent Porsche sports car is most similar to the 993 in power, size and weight? The 987 and 981 Caymans.

To me, 993 was the ultimate practical sports car. But I see today's 911 in the super car class and Cayman replaced that practical sports car image I had. I wanted to own a Cayman for a long time until I bought my FR-S. I am not interested anymore.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by mrg666

To me, 993 was the ultimate practical sports car. But I see today's 911 in the super car class and Cayman replaced that practical sports car image I had. I wanted to own a Cayman for a long time until I bought my FR-S. I am not interested anymore.

Related tangent -- I see the C5 Corvette in the same demarcation with the current Camaro being the practical replacement.

Also, I still want to keep the C5z06 but I am hoping a BRZ PP would change my mind. I don't think it will. I think it would be an additive experience for a different purpose.

[strmshadow84]

Originally Posted by mrg666

To me, 993 was the ultimate practical sports car. But I see today's 911 in the super car class and Cayman replaced that practical sports car image I had. I wanted to own a Cayman for a long time until I bought my FR-S. I am not interested anymore.

I think it would be worth it to get into a 981, at least for a little while. I love the combination of power/weight and balance of it, should at least try to go somewhere they offer to let you track it for a few laps.