New Mazda RX Vision concept

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by reni

It seems nice for a FWD other than the garish styling. If I was spending my own money I would probably rather have a WRX, although neither of them really get my heart pumping.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

It makes me feel nauseous, lol.

Embrace the old fogey within and get ready for car meets on manicured lawns not midnight parking lots.






Seriously though, modern cars are safer, cheaper, faster, and there are a few that are still fun. For every RX-7 there's was thousands of Mazda 323's built that nobody gave a shit about, the AE86 was a minority out of all the Corolla's sold the same years, and on and on. Fun cars are the minority, they've always been the minority, like classic rock stations everything looks great in hindsight because everyone forgot the utter shit that polluted the options available and it died a quick death, just like modern economy cars will. We won't remember the Camry redesign that happened this decade, or the Prius Transformer, but we'll remember the 86, the ND, the CTR and the STI.

[reni]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Seriously though, modern cars are safer, cheaper, faster, and there are a few that are still fun. For every RX-7 there's was thousands of Mazda 323's built that nobody gave a shit about, the AE86 was a minority out of all the Corolla's sold the same years, and on and on. Fun cars are the minority, they've always been the minority, like classic rock stations everything looks great in hindsight because everyone forgot the utter shit that polluted the options available and it died a quick death, just like modern economy cars will. We won't remember the Camry redesign that happened this decade, or the Prius Transformer, but we'll remember the 86, the ND, the CTR and the STI.

The 90s were sort of a golden age for "affordable" performance cars, there are some good cars today but overall it doesn't compare.

RX-7 => gone
Supra => gone
MR2 => gone
Lancer Evo => gone
Mistubishi GTO => gone
Eclipse => gone
Silvia / 240SX => gone
S2000 => gone
Celica => gone
323GTX => gone (spiritual successor in the MS3, but that's gone now too)
Old NSX: Ferrari-beater => New NSX: bloated hybrid
300ZX: twin turbo sexiness => 350/370Z: ugly as hell

Old vs new WRX - I'd call this one a wash
Old vs new Miata - wash
Escort Cosworth => Focus RS - wash
Old ITR / CTR vs new CTR - wash
R32/R33/R34 vs R35 - wash

86: New
Corvette: Better
Camaro: Better
Mustang: ?

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by reni

The 90s were sort of a golden age for "affordable" performance cars, there are some good cars today but overall it doesn't compare.

RX-7 => gone
Supra => gone
MR2 => gone
Lancer Evo => gone
Mistubishi GTO => gone
Eclipse => gone
Silvia / 240SX => gone
S2000 => gone
Celica => gone
323GTX => gone (spiritual successor in the MS3, but that's gone now too)
Old NSX: Ferrari-beater => New NSX: bloated hybrid
300ZX: twin turbo sexiness => 350/370Z: ugly as hell

Old vs new WRX - I'd call this one a wash
Old vs new Miata - wash
Escort Cosworth => Focus RS - wash
Old ITR / CTR vs new CTR - wash
R32/R33/R34 vs R35 - wash

86: New
Corvette: Better
Camaro: Better
Mustang: ?

True.
Out of your list above I for one would love to see new versions of (provided they stuck to the right recipe)

The supra, Escort/cosworth, RX7 and the S2000

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by reni

The 90s were sort of a golden age for "affordable" performance cars, there are some good cars today but overall it doesn't compare.

RX-7 => gone
Supra => gone
MR2 => gone
Lancer Evo => gone
Mistubishi GTO => gone
Eclipse => gone
Silvia / 240SX => gone
S2000 => gone
Celica => gone
323GTX => gone (spiritual successor in the MS3, but that's gone now too)
Old NSX: Ferrari-beater => New NSX: bloated hybrid
300ZX: twin turbo sexiness => 350/370Z: ugly as hell

Old vs new WRX - I'd call this one a wash
Old vs new Miata - wash
Escort Cosworth => Focus RS - wash
Old ITR / CTR vs new CTR - wash
R32/R33/R34 vs R35 - wash

86: New
Corvette: Better
Camaro: Better
Mustang: ?

Oh, the line for affordable is $60k now?

Strike the NSX+GTR from your list, they cost more than a 911 back in the day as well as today. The 370Z is at least a wash, screw your subjective opinion on styling. I'll begrudgingly only mention cars under ~$60k, current base price of the Corvette and in line with car prices you mention from ~1993 or so (that also means less research for me to have to do to check prices on old cars)

Abarth: new
Alfa Romeo 4C: new
Alfa Romeo Giulia: new
BMW M2: wash v. e36 M3 (+200 lbs +120 hp seems like an OK trade to me)
Z3->Z4/Z5: wash
Fiesta ST: new
Hyundai Genesis: new
Jaguar F-Type: new
Mini Cooper S/JCW: new
Porsche Cayman: new (968 too expensive)
Porsche Boxster: wash
GTI/Golf R: probably a wash on fun, definitely better cars today

So by my count, not taking any cheats like the BRZ+86 = 2 and counting the stuff that's a wash like Mustang and Boxster as a point for both. As well as not including the NSX & GTR for being too expensive and the Escort Cosworth for being produced in such incredibly small numbers (~7k total) and not even in this country:
Current: 21
Old: 21

When you consider that three of your choices were from a now defunct Mitsubishi, and we got the Europeans picking up the slack from the Japanese I think we're doing ok.



What I find interesting making this list is the only thing really missing is those Corvette priced Japanese cars and the MR2. We still have hopped up econo-box AWD cars like the Evo/Escort and they're arguably better today, convertibles like the Z3 and Boxster that competed head on with the S2000 in the 90's are still in production as well as the MX-5, sporty FWD cars like the Celica/Integra/GTI are still made, affordable RWD like the 240sx with Mustang/Camaro/86, and European Corvette competitors from BMW, Porsche, and now Alfa and Jaguar, maybe the new Audi TT deserves to be on the list too, idk.

I mean I can understand criticizing modern standards for making cars heavy, less polluting, and less niche as well as towards Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mitsubishi for dropping the ball. But I don't think we're any worse off today than we were 25 years ago.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

.. But I don't think we're any worse off today than we were 25 years ago.

No MR2 means we are automatically worse off, regardless of anything else.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

No MR2 means we are automatically worse off, regardless of anything else.

fuckin' Toyota and Honda, bring your damn kei cars to America already!

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

fuckin' Toyota and Honda, bring your damn kei cars to America already!

They would sell like shit in America.

[gymratter]

but the SFR isnt a kei car.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Wall-o-Text

Thanks for taking the time to write this for me

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

No MR2 means we are automatically worse off, regardless of anything else.

A new MR2 is practically confirmed. Now all we have to do is wait a year or two.

[serialk11r]

Well, if by some miracle the Honda "Vision GT"/"big S660"/"baby NSX" car becomes some kind of reality, I would say it fixes the lack of MR2 deficiency

What the MR2 always needed was some Honda power to make it faster and more reliable.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

A new MR2 is practically confirmed. Now all we have to do is wait a year or two.

Uh, what? I don't consider the rumors to be "practically confirmed". I would love to be wrong.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Uh, what? I don't consider the rumors to be "practically confirmed". I would love to be wrong.

I have no proof, we will just have to wait and see.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

They would sell like shit in America.

Doesn't mean I can't want it.

Originally Posted by gymratter

but the SFR isnt a kei car.

it isn't even a car

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

A new MR2 is practically confirmed. Now all we have to do is wait a year or two.

I'm going to agree with serialk11111111R and say that a new MR2 is as likely as the IDX or S660 hitting US shores.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Doesn't mean I can't want it.

Oh I know, I would want one too.

You could always import a Cappuccino or Beat though
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Oh, the line for affordable is $60k now?

Strike the NSX+GTR from your list, they cost more than a 911 back in the day as well as today. The 370Z is at least a wash, screw your subjective opinion on styling. I'll begrudgingly only mention cars under ~$60k, current base price of the Corvette and in line with car prices you mention from ~1993 or so (that also means less research for me to have to do to check prices on old cars)

Abarth: new
Alfa Romeo 4C: new No Manual Option
Alfa Romeo Giulia: new
BMW M2: wash v. e36 M3 (+200 lbs +120 hp seems like an OK trade to me)
Z3->Z4/Z5: wash Overweight, No Manual Option
Fiesta ST: new
Hyundai Genesis: new Dreadful Handling, Out of Production
Jaguar F-Type: new Overweight
Mini Cooper S/JCW: new
Porsche Cayman: new (968 too expensive)
Porsche Boxster: wash
GTI/Golf R: probably a wash on fun, definitely better cars today

So by my count, not taking any cheats like the BRZ+86 = 2 and counting the stuff that's a wash like Mustang and Boxster as a point for both. As well as not including the NSX & GTR for being too expensive and the Escort Cosworth for being produced in such incredibly small numbers (~7k total) and not even in this country:
Current: 21
Old: 21

When you consider that three of your choices were from a now defunct Mitsubishi, and we got the Europeans picking up the slack from the Japanese I think we're doing ok.



What I find interesting making this list is the only thing really missing is those Corvette priced Japanese cars and the MR2. We still have hopped up econo-box AWD cars like the Evo/Escort and they're arguably better today, convertibles like the Z3 and Boxster that competed head on with the S2000 in the 90's are still in production as well as the MX-5, sporty FWD cars like the Celica/Integra/GTI are still made, affordable RWD like the 240sx with Mustang/Camaro/86, and European Corvette competitors from BMW, Porsche, and now Alfa and Jaguar, maybe the new Audi TT deserves to be on the list too, idk.

I mean I can understand criticizing modern standards for making cars heavy, less polluting, and less niche as well as towards Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mitsubishi for dropping the ball. But I don't think we're any worse off today than we were 25 years ago.

Sporty FWD cars like the Celica/Integra/GTI are NOT still made today. The GTI isn't available as a 2 door anymore. You can try to say the Civic Si is similar but it's not available as a hatchback.

It's a great time to be alive if you love powerful overweight fat RWD coupes like the Camaro and Mustang, but if you want affordable RWD lightweight and a fixed roof you've got one option - FT86. Sure the pony cars handle well now, but one weekend on the track with one of those will shred a $1500-2000 set of tires.