RE-71R's Lost Grip

[smg1138]

So, my current set of RE-71R's seem to have completely lost their grip. Have had them mounted for about 18 months, but only drove them to and from Autocross events. Wear is just about 1/64 above the wear bars now. Is that considered pretty normal life for these tires? I'm thinking they've heat cycled out, but hoped I could get to the cords before that happened.

[Code Monkey]

Sounds normal. You can try rotating them (run them backwards), just don't drive in the rain when you do that.

[ka-t_240]

How many runs and how many street miles? Mine have always been good to the cords. I have gone thru 3 sets so far, on 4th.

[JakeRogue]

I've heard at autocross events that RE-71Rs get heat cycled well before they wear out, hence why so many autocrossers sell used sets. So it's likely they're just no longer getting up to temp fast anymore. I've never driven them so I can't speak from personal experience, but this is what I've heard at the watercooler...

[strat61caster]

I've heard they're, good until the tread is gone, will find out in a few months how true that is :P
(have one set at ~100 runs that's looking pretty ragged that will probably hit ~140 by the end of the year, they'll be 1 year old next month)

~150 runs seems to be the common point at which people say they fall off, or when they've become slicks, whichever is first. Everyone freaked out when the tread wear seemed really high but getting 150 competitive runs out of a tire is excellent. The one factor you may be fighting is age as you approach 2 years old, but I've heard that they'll 'wake up' if you can get some heat in them.

You may just be struggling with the temperature dropping?

I had a set I thought had fallen off with about the same tread depth as you, ~1 year old, ~60-70 runs, popped on a new set and... it was the same after scrubbing them in. My issue was setup related, a few hundred bucks down the drain (I managed to sell the used ones for a few hundred to minimize the losses).

imho keep running them until next spring, you've got tread depth so they won't be terribly unsafe at the very least, see if there's any new tires coming out before buying replacements. Unless you're trying to win a points championship the worst case scenario is they're not as competitive as before due to age (not necessarily heat cycles) and you have a few events sliding around which can be educational.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I've heard they're, good until the tread is gone, will find out in a few months how true that is :P
(have one set at ~100 runs that's looking pretty ragged that will probably hit ~140 by the end of the year, they'll be 1 year old next month)

We were just having this exact discussion in the Boston BMW CCA ISG group, when trying to decide upon a controlled 'street' tires to turn at club track events next year. And there are several people, at least one with a twin, who had experience with RE-71Rs heat cycling out "prematurely" and long before the tread is gone. It seems to be a common problem and the group has ruled out the tire as a result.

I can't really offer much insight into the specifics but there are at least 4-5 people in that group who share smg1138's problem, and within a much shorter time span. So I think there's really something to it.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

We were just having this exact discussion in the Boston BMW CCA ISG group, when trying to decide upon a controlled 'street' tires to turn at club track events next year. And there are several people, at least one with a twin, who had experience with RE-71Rs heat cycling out "prematurely" and long before the tread is gone. It seems to be a common problem and the group has ruled out the tire as a result.

I can't really offer much insight into the specifics but there are at least 4-5 people in that group who share smg1138's problem, and within a much shorter time span. So I think there's really something to it.

Not to derail but what tire are you considering instead?

Well, I won't regurgitate 2nd hand stories and just emphasize my own experience swapping out ~60-70 run RE-71R's for some fresh ones, I was slow the first week of April and I was just as slow three weeks later on the same site with the same weather :P

Like I said we currently have a set with ~100 runs, I think they're well past the wear bars and we'll be running the rest of the year on them pushing them up to around 140 runs. I'd love to swap on some new tires to see if they'd help, but I don't anticipate any $800 checks coming in the mail this year.

[smg1138]

Thanks for the responses so far. Wish I had kept better track of how many miles I put on them. Roughly estimating, I'd say they have close to 100 Autocross runs on them now. Plus the miles to and from events which are usually about an hour away.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I've heard they're, good until the tread is gone, will find out in a few months how true that is :P

I've heard the exact opposite. I'm still on my first set after two seasons so we shall see if I can notice anything dramatic, as I'm definitely over 100 runs now.

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Not to derail but what tire are you considering instead?

It's between the Dunlop ZII, possibly upcoming Dunlop ZIII, the RE-71R and Hankook RS4. The thought is they want to use 2 tires. (1) street based tire that has less grip, something that can also handle mild wet running and something that will allow the car to move around a bit more than an R-compound. It's to be used for exercises and general comparisons. And (2) DOT-R compound (probably Toyo Proxes RR) for pounding away and hot laps.

FWIW, a buddy of mine in a BRZ ran almost identical lap times as me last year at Mont Tremblant, within a few tenths over multiple sessions on RE-71Rs. This year, on a set that was 8 months old with about 30+ heat cycles, he couldn't get within 3 seconds of his time last year, where I was running similar times, all else being equal.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

FWIW, a buddy of mine in a BRZ ran almost identical lap times as me last year at Mont Tremblant, within a few tenths over multiple sessions on RE-71Rs. This year, on a set that was 8 months old with about 30+ heat cycles, he couldn't get within 3 seconds of his time last year, where I was running similar times, all else being equal.

Ah, I totally missed the part where you were talking about track duty.

I haven't run RE71R's on track and would absolutely believe they are unsuitable for what your club is looking for, track heat cycles are rather different than autox heat cycles (which is what the thread is primarily about) and the ZII/III or RS4 would definitely be the two to choose from.



Although if you mean 30+ heat cycles being 30+ ~15 minute track sessions I'd say that's mighty impressive from such a sticky a street tire.

[tony_r]

It's not really heat cycles on the RE-71's, it's age. Look at the build date. At 18 months + whenever it was built is a long time in terms current 200tw tire life.

[Icecreamtruk]

Since we are talking about tires lasting, I have to mention. On my last track event, I set my best time on that track so far on my RS4 tires, after using them in 11 track days. They are so old they are starting to look bald in the center and inner shoulder (lots of camber for me). I was quick enough to match my best time on Nittos NT01. Feeling wise they are as good as new, data wise they keep pulling the same sustained lateral Gs they did the first two days (1.3g on unbanked high speed corners, 1.2g on unbanked low speed corners). If you need lasting tires that can perform on track and are street legal (for classing or for doing dual duty), I wouldnt look past the RS4.

I will try a set of RE71R next year, but I will still get a set of RS4. Both will be mounted on identical wheels so I will be able to provide back to back sessions with data to really compare what they can do. Until then, sit tight on what you got I guess?

[CSG Mike]

Sounds about normal between heat cycles and age.

71R are "I'm paying for my time" tires. Unfortunately, they are mandatory to be competitive at AutoX.

The sad part is real slicks don't cycle like 71R, and last significantly longer under sustained heat conditions, but everyone falls victim to the "200TW" politics.