They said I could be anything...

[Jordanwolf]

I am not here to argue, so stand back foul demon, your need to prove your point is not necessary.

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

The Owner's Manual states "Do Not Tow" because towing was never in the "official" design specifications when Subaru and Toyota were designing, building, and testing the car. Therefore the car was never tested for towing capability, and as a result, the Owner's Manual states not to do so, as neither Subaru, nor Toyota, want to be responsible for any issues stemming from something they never explicitly designed the car to do.

That statement was not written by engineers. It was written by lawyers to cover their butts. Even if it does state a towing capacity, that isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all of what the vehicle can do. A lot of things come together to define the "official towing capacity" of a vehicle, and the mechanical limits of the vehicle are only one of those things. The "safe limit" is different from the mechanical limit. The "legal limit" is different from both of those. And so on, and so forth. Any vehicle can tow something, though. And since I just got into an argument with someone about this on Facebook, I can conveniently copy-paste this reply

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I am not here to argue, so stand back foul demon, your need to prove your point is not necessary.

Wasn't being nasty. Just trying to explain

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

The Owner's Manual states "Do Not Tow" because towing was never in the "official" design specifications when Subaru and Toyota were designing, building, and testing the car. Therefore the car was never tested for towing capability, and as a result, the Owner's Manual states not to do so, as neither Subaru, nor Toyota, want to be responsible for any issues stemming from something they never explicitly designed the car to do.

That statement was not written by engineers. It was written by lawyers to cover their butts. Even if it does state a towing capacity, that isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all of what the vehicle can do. A lot of things come together to define the "official towing capacity" of a vehicle, and the mechanical limits of the vehicle are only one of those things. The "safe limit" is different from the mechanical limit. The "legal limit" is different from both of those. And so on, and so forth. Any vehicle can tow something, though. And since I just got into an argument with someone about this on Facebook, I can conveniently copy-paste this reply

The only time I worry about somebody towing when not recommended is with FWD cars. Start to get into some wonky traction and steering issues then
Any RWD/AWD vehicle can easily and safely to a trailer as long as you pay attention to the tongue weight (as you said).
There is a huge market for motorcycle trailers and if they can pull one you certainly can.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Wasn't being nasty. Just trying to explain

I actually had the same idea for myself down the road if I don't have another vehicle yet. I plan to get like a little trailer thing for easy camping, tents are great and all, but mini trailer better

[LOLS2K]

Does this void the warranty?

[Darth Khan]

Originally Posted by LOLS2K

Does this void the warranty?

No. but if you get into an accident the insurance company could argue the point that the vehicle should not have been towing and not pay out.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by Darth Khan

No. but if you get into an accident the insurance company could argue the point that the vehicle should not have been towing and not pay out.

That is a common misconception/assumption. I've spoken to multiole insurance companies about this, and there are no issues with a reasonably sized trailer.

[gravitylover]

How did you wire up the trailer lights? I need them for when I have bikes on the hitch rack because they obstruct the tail lights completely so I want to hang a set on the outermost bike.

I also want to get a small super lightweight trailer to transport a variety of things.

[Darth Khan]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

That is a common misconception/assumption. I've spoken to multiole insurance companies about this, and there are no issues with a reasonably sized trailer.

Give them a call back and ask the following question:

"I want to tow a trailer with my car however the manufacturers manual states 'Do Not Tow', will there be any issues with coverage if I am involved in an accident?"

Even if they person on the phone says it would be fine, on the day of the claim when the assessor is at the end of his monthly bonus drive, he/she may decide no.

Having said that I suspect that most WILL PAY, however like I said they could argue the point and would probably win in court.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by Darth Khan

Give them a call back and ask the following question:

"I want to tow a trailer with my car however the manufacturers manual states 'Do Not Tow', will there be any issues with coverage if I am involved in an accident?"

Even if they person on the phone says it would be fine, on the day of the claim when the assessor is at the end of his monthly bonus drive, he/she may decide no.

Having said that I suspect that most WILL PAY, however like I said they could argue the point and would probably win in court.

There is no language in mine, or anyone else's insurance contract that stipulates your trailer must fall within manufacturer specifications. There isn't any reason to think they would win in court. Not only do their own documents not prohibit it, but the Owners Manual merely states that the vehicle was not designed or intended to tow, not that it can't tow. The manual language is legal jargon for "we never tested this setup, so don't expect us to cover anything under warranty if it fails while towing."

And here is the response I have, in writing, from my insurance company:

In terms of the trailer, you are completely covered for liability insurance while the trailer is attached to your car, regardless of whether or not Subaru recommends attaching a trailer to a car in the first place. The reality is that all cars have a towing capacity to some extent, as you know. Whether it’s my Saab, a Miata, or an F-150, people are going to attach a trailer to their car. Fortunately, we recognize this and would absolutely not deny a liability claim based on the fact that a trailer would void your warranty with Subaru. What I’m getting at is that we would absolutely not deny a liability claim for your trailer.

We are not a company that denies claims based on nonsense, especially when liability coverage is involved. The only way you could really have a claim denied is if you falsified your application or committed insurance fraud and that’s honestly really difficult to do. For example, if you did not actually own the vehicle you insure, an insurance company has a right to deny the claim. Obviously, this situation does not pertain to you at all, I’m just trying to highlight the fact that you would typically have to do something intentionally dishonest and fairly extreme for them to deny your claim.

In general, we try to pay out most claims for covered perils under covered circumstances. As you know, they will not cover a claim that was the result of racing. Outside of circumstances like that, you are good to go. In your situation, you are towing a trailer completely legally and with an actual trailer hitch. There is no wrongdoing or dishonesty on your part, and you are on public roads not engaged in any activity that we would not cover.

One further example to ease your mind would be a DUI. Obviously, I’m not condoning drinking and driving at all, but for those who make such a foolish decision and inevitably crash their car, that is still a covered claim. They’re doing something blatantly illegal and dangerous, but the claim will be covered. That’s not to say there aren’t consequences and action taken against the policy after the fact.

In your case, you are completely good to go. The only thing I would point out is that the trailer is not covered for physical damage. Meaning, if something happens to the trailer, we will not pay to replace/repair it. You can take out a separate insurance policy on it if you’d like, but I don’t think that’s necessary in your case.

[Darth Khan]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

There is no language in mine, or anyone else's insurance contract that stipulates your trailer must fall within manufacturer specifications. There isn't any reason to think they would win in court. Not only do their own documents not prohibit it, but the Owners Manual merely states that the vehicle was not designed or intended to tow, not that it can't tow. The manual language is legal jargon for "we never tested this setup, so don't expect us to cover anything under warranty if it fails while towing."

And here is the response I have, in writing, from my insurance company:

I never stated the trailer must fall within manufacturers specs, i'm stating that the vehicle manufacturer says do not use the vehicle to tow. (Regardless of what you are towing).

I glad you insurance company is so understanding and i'm sure most would pay. However your personal relationship with your insurer does not necessarily translate to all other insurance companies. I would recommend that anyone who is intending to tow with a twin do exactly what you did and get confirmation in writing. Because if you don't and your are involved in an accident pound to a penny sods law will kick in and you will be the unlucky one who has an insurance company who will do whatever it can to not pay out.

Or to put it another way , "Cover your ass"

[sweetpea]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

How did you wire up the trailer lights? I need them for when I have bikes on the hitch rack because they obstruct the tail lights completely so I want to hang a set on the outermost bike.

I also want to get a small super lightweight trailer to transport a variety of things.

*edited post to help not confuse people

Go to any trailer wiring site and they will have kits (etrailers is a good one). Depending on the amperage to the brake lights you will have 2 options.


1. If they can handle the amps, just splice right in to the positive wires of both sides and make a ground to the car. Plug your lights in to those wires and you are good to go.


2. If no, Well then you have to run a power lead back to the battery for 12v. You still splice into your tail lights but there is a control module you get as well and still have to do a separate ground. Again, just plug your lights in after that.


Its not complicated once you know the amps (or if its a 2 or 3 wire system). There are so many plug and play trailer harnesses nowadays with directions on which is the power and which is the turn signal its easy.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by sweetpea

Go to any trailer wiring site and they will have kits (etrailers is a good one). Depending on the voltage to the brake lights you will have 2 options.


1. Its 12v. Great, you just splice right in to the positive wires of both sides and make a ground to the car. Plug your lights in to those wires and you are good to go.


2. Its 6v (which is more common nowadays). Well then you have to run a power lead back to the battery for 12v. You still splice into your tail lights but there is a control module you get as well and still have to do a separate ground. Again, just plug your lights in after that.


Its not complicated once you know the voltages. There are so many plug and play trailer harnesses nowadays with directions on which is the power and which is the turn signal its easy.

Could you not just get an external battery?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is a huge market for motorcycle trailers and if they can pull one you certainly can.

another example...



and of course there is always the Goldwing Tow Truck (yes a real thing)...