Subaru Testing a BRZ with STI Badging and a Big Wing

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Even the BRZ I don't drive flat out in the mountains anymore because it really needs an oil cooler to keep up. Cheaper cars just aren't designed to actually get driven quickly for more than a few minutes at a time, and the required retrofits aren't free either.

An oil cooler is not needed for canyon driving. It was promoted too much in the forums from people using the car on the track with a 0x20 or a 5x30 oil which is a joke. Try to use a 0x20 oil in your porsche and let me know the result. Serious sport cars should use on the track 50+ grade oils. Personally, I am using for street driving a 5x40 oil.

[Pat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

An oil cooler is not needed for canyon driving. It was promoted too much in the forums from people using the car on the track with a 0x20 or a 5x30 oil which is a joke. Try to use a 0x20 oil in your porsche and let me know the result. Serious sport cars should use on the track 50+ grade oils. Personally, I am using for street driving a 5x40 oil.

I believe this used to be the case. But I'm not confident that's how it works anymore with the latest engine building technologies.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Yousend

. I'll figure it out once the time comes! That's like asking people if they bought a house in a good neighborhood for when they move out as opposed to the quality of life in that neighborhood.

Biggest lesson I learned after buying and selling my first house was to look at the neighbors with a critical eye. If there is a car in some state of disrepair in someone's driveway, expect that there will always be one. If someone has messy landscaping or kid's toys all over the yard, it will always look like that. Also, never buy the nicest house in a neighborhood. It makes you a target and the value of the other houses will limit what you can to do to increase the value of your own house. Completely unrelated to these cars, but I think it is good advice.



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[Quentin]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Except that the depreciation is not high. It's matching or beating the average depreciation curve.

A 3 year old car should be getting trade in offers of less than half of MSRP. The only reason people are surprised is because they have no idea how automotive depreciation works.

15% is the benchmark. 15% for 3 years is 60% of original price. At 50% over that time is worse than normal. I'd say it is on par for sports cars, though.


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[Lynxis]

The twins ARE holding value better than the average, especially on the private sale side of things. Clean, low mile MY13 examples are still getting upwards of 18k at private sale. 5 years old, no warranty and still commanding that type of value is exceptional if you ask me.

A lot of people seem to forget that trade-in value, KBB value and private resale values are all completely different things. A dealer trades in for lower than the car is worth because they need to turn around and sell that car to someone else and still make a profit doing so so don't take dealer trade-in values as what a car is actually worth. For example, my sister paid 11000 new for her Cavalier and then tried trading it in at 5 years old with 65000kms in immaculate condition and the best dealer offer she got was $3500. They know they can only turn around and get around $5000 for it tops and they need it to be worth their time, hence the low trade-in value.

On the flip side, private resale value is closer to what a car is really worth. My sister got $5000 for that exact same car on a private sale.

The KBB value of the vehicle is also often understated. This happens because a lot of people fudge the numbers on private sales so the buyer doesn't have to pay as much tax and that reduces the listed value in KBB.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The same holds with the Golf R and its premium quality.

Premium my ass. The interior will smell like old crayons in 10 years like very other VW, and it'll depreciate below the cost of any major component (engine/trans) right after warranty expires and then have said major component fail. The only reason VW is considered "premium" in the states is because it's German and normal maintenance parts are 2-3 times the cost of domestic or Asian cars. The few European transplants I know consider VW to be garbage and the equivalent of a German Ford.

Originally Posted by Lynxis

The twins

That's the other issue. The BRZ is holding it's value far better than the FRS is. Even though we all know it's the same exact car, and even consumer reports has different quality figures for both drivetrains when they're IDENTICAL and literally coming off the same assembly line. Eh, but I have a BRZ so I'm not salty like the FRS guys are

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Quentin

15% is the benchmark. 15% for 3 years is 60% of original price. At 50% over that time is worse than normal.

Not for trade in value. Trade value is always going to be considerably less than market value, and the market value of these cars is holding up better than average.

[VoltsFRS2013]

235 wheel HP or riot

[Pat]

Originally Posted by Poodles

The interior will smell like old crayons in 10 years like very other VW...

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Premium my ass. The interior will smell like old crayons in 10 years like very other VW, and it'll depreciate below the cost of any major component (engine/trans) right after warranty expires and then have said major component fail. The only reason VW is considered "premium" in the states is because it's German and normal maintenance parts are 2-3 times the cost of domestic or Asian cars. The few European transplants I know consider VW to be garbage and the equivalent of a German Ford.

I get your point if you don't like German cars, but VW is not equivalent with Ford. Maybe Opel is on a similar level. VW is considered to be one level higher ...

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

An oil cooler is not needed for canyon driving. It was promoted too much in the forums from people using the car on the track with a 0x20 or a 5x30 oil which is a joke. Try to use a 0x20 oil in your porsche and let me know the result. Serious sport cars should use on the track 50+ grade oils. Personally, I am using for street driving a 5x40 oil.

I didn't think it would be required for canyon driving either until I went canyon driving one day and the car threw a CEL.

Won't running a heavy oil cause a lot of excess wear during normal use? Wouldn't fitting a cooler and then running the thinnest oil possible that can still maintain the correct pressures at high temperatures be the right answer, rather than subbing in something super heavy?

[Pat]

Your car had a CEL light due to hot oil caused by driving in a canyon? That's tough for me to believe assuming there was nothing else wrong/modified with your car.
In 55k miles and about 40 track days on my car I've never had a CEL.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Pat

I believe this used to be the case. But I'm not confident that's how it works anymore with the latest engine building technologies.

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

I didn't think it would be required for canyon driving either until I went canyon driving one day and the car threw a CEL.

Won't running a heavy oil cause a lot of excess wear during normal use? Wouldn't fitting a cooler and then running the thinnest oil possible that can still maintain the correct pressures at high temperatures be the right answer, rather than subbing in something super heavy?

Modern engines are not build so tight in order to reduce internal friction. The tension in piston rings and valve guides is smaller and bigger amount of oil can flow between the parts. This the reason modern engines have a tendency to burn more oil. It is a design feature and not a fault. I cannot imagine why a thicker oil would be worse comparing to the early days. In fact, there are cases were manufacturers suggested gradually to use thinner oils on old engine architectures. The only reason using a thinner oil is for better fuel consumption. If you want to play on the safe side, use an oil that in cold conditions is closer to the initial specs like a 5w40 grade.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Quentin

What explains the ridiculous depreciation on the BRZ/86 then?


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Just in America..............


Try buying a BRZ/86 used in the other 200 countries and see how the resale value is.

Just remember even in japan the resale value of twins is better then america should tell you something.............