ACE Header Independent Testing Results and Review - 199.6WHP on CA 91 Octane

[Chamaco]

@CSG Mike,

Do you guys offer paypal as a payment method?

thanks.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Chamaco

@CSG Mike,

Do you guys offer paypal as a payment method?

thanks.

Yup!

PM @CounterSpace Garage to order via PayPal.

[Roadcone]

Originally Posted by churchx

Imho most would benefit from single chart listing curves of all the Ace headers on same dyno with similar tunes (eg. Delicious'). 400/350/250/150/4-1/Anacondas.
Imho having such chart should cut most questions as to which header choose for which cases and illustrate best in visual representation for gains where gets sacrificed what. If anything .. it would benefit also from stock everything with stock tune baseline of that dyno, to serve as good answer also for ones asking how much gains to be had.

I've been asking for this since everything started. there's no proof that anything is better than anything else other than we said so. For all the testing that claims to have happened how have they not tried each header on the car and tuned it to see which does best and shared the results?

[Silverfox]

Originally Posted by Roadcone

I've been asking for this since everything started. there's no proof that anything is better than anything else other than we said so. For all the testing that claims to have happened how have they not tried each header on the car and tuned it to see which does best and shared the results?

It's expensive. The testing has happened on cars who have purchased and are using in comp. ACE isn't borla or another major manufacturer.


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[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Roadcone

I've been asking for this since everything started. there's no proof that anything is better than anything else other than we said so. For all the testing that claims to have happened how have they not tried each header on the car and tuned it to see which does best and shared the results?

I'll volunteer my car, if you want to sponsor the dyno time and labor!

I'd guess about 1 day of tuning per header to truly wring out every last bit, and about 1.5 hours of labor per header swap. I know @sales@delicioustuning.com would love to have their dyno booked for a week straight.

[DeliciousTuning]

A full day on the dyno runs approx $995 with us, and if you want a full week it'll need to be booked out around the last week of October right before SEMA. We're pretty slammed this time of year!

FWIW, refining the Ace tune to its current state took approximately 100 hours. If we didn't already have this base to work from, getting results for each other possible combination of Ace header with this level of refinement would take far more than one day a pop.

-Zach

[brzaapi]

Its easy to take a lot of that development for granted

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

Its easy to take a lot of that development for granted

Agree, while a good design, the amount of labor into tuning/optimization for these headers is one of the biggest selling points and probably why it performs so well.

[churchx]

As many customers are not local to CSG/Delicious, imho no need for "book whole week" and so on .. due many very probably using Delicious' OTS tunes for Ace headers. If i'm right on this, then imho such results would be even more beneficial, then "1 day of tuning per header to truly bring out every last bit" with custom tune for each. 2-4 runs for some averaging results and mentioned 1.5h per header swap still needed though, so even in cheapest possible way it would be not that cheap.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by churchx

As many customers are not local to CSG/Delicious, imho no need for "book whole week" and so on .. due many very probably using Delicious' OTS tunes for Ace headers. If i'm right on this, then imho such results would be even more beneficial, then "1 day of tuning per header to truly bring out every last bit" with custom tune for each. 2-4 runs for some averaging results and mentioned 1.5h per header swap still needed though, so even in cheapest possible way it would be not that cheap.

By your logic, we might as well test every header on a stock tune, to see which one makes the most power.

You're forgetting the part where the tune needs to be fully customized to each header, to truly unlock the potential of each header, and allow them to be compared.

I would not expect an A/150 to perform well on a CS400 tune, at all, for example.

[BuffDriver]

And then there are cars that are just finicky...

My LAST dyno tune took 17 pulls and all day to get everything on the table.

And that was starting with the OFT OTS Crawford BPB tune as a basis at a shop specializing in Subaru performance (78% WRX's though).

There are plenty of dyno results for various headers on the forum if you dig for them. Perhaps 'someone' who wants to know might put together a compilation? [Of course most have various catbac systems too which would distort the results... sigh]

[CSG Mike]

The current iteration of the Ace tune is the result of over a thousand pulls.

[churchx]

CSG Mike: my logic was with assumption Delicious might have OTS tunes for all of them. If it's not so, of course no sense to compare against headers not having "native" OTS one while using ecu tune from other header, and if half of headers need to have complete custom tuning, then of course time/money spent is rised too much to make sense doing. Then i guess about the only thing that can be done, is trying to photoshop together different header charts trying to tie via baselines of stock, relatively of which to put/scale tuned header graph. Yes, it will be different cars, different days and maybe even different dynos and with trying to manually scale while pasting together but better then nothing and still may serve at least for rough comparison/choice to whom which from ace's headers may fit better.

[JSube]

So, we're on the forums because we love our cars and tuners exist because manufacturers have to build cars on a template which will inevitably leave some room, less with NA & more with FI, to increase performance. And altho we all have basically the same car, we do the research we can do once we've figured out a direction to go and see graphs from different dynos on cars with slightly different parts that result in slightly different numbers. Because a number is not an opinion, we believe we are seeing some sort of truth. And we are, but it's a truth with qualifications.
A few vendors sell parts and services they have done meaningful development on. Most simply receive parts in boxes from every supplier who makes parts to fit our cars and ship the same box to us when we buy them. That's fine, sometimes we save money that way. I don't need to have Oakos prove to me RPF1s are great wheels when I'll save $175 over a competitor if I buy from them.
I'm a few months away from buying the rest of CSG's NA Power pkg (exhaust is on the car already) because from what I can tell they've done an unusual amount of testing and development. Delicious has also done testing because they wouldn't have a product otherwise. But, since many tuners don't know their ass from their elbow, their reputation on this forum has a value for me. I don't think the performance difference would be night and day between the ACE header and another header, but there will be some. And what I want from the tune is max output balanced with max safety. So I'm going to jump, because whether you live in Louisville or Latvia, at some point you just have to. Or not.