Considering an AT

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Soloside

How am I suppose to eat my breakfast sandwich and drink my coffee while shifting with manual?!?!?!?!

Honestly, I've never found this to be an issue with either transmission. My benchmark 0 to full measurements are probably a little slower with a MT, but I do enjoy the challenge.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

This is from 2016.
http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...115-story.html

This is an article in general. It is interesting to see even Ferrari and Lamborghini doesn't offer manual transmission anymore.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There have been many anecdotal numbers given and many, many guesses given as "official" but nobody has ever been able to provide one piece of proof as to what the mix actually is.
It is safe to assume that there is a much larger percentage of MTs than "normal" cars but my guess is that at best it is 50/50. It could be much lower though since all 5 dealers I have spoken with say they get 3 ATs in for every MT.
The perceived number of MT vs AT on this forum is distorted since the people that post here tend to be the "enthusiasts" and have a bias toward MT. The reality is that for every person here there are a couple of hundred (at least) that just own the car because it is a nice looking, inexpensive coupe. The majority of that group are going to be AT owners.

My guess is the same. At least 50% is AT for our cars if not more. It is just that there is a group of noisy MT fanatics that skew perceptions and increase the warranty coverage costs to manufacturers and buyers.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mrg666

This is an article in general. It is interesting to see even Ferrari and Lamborghini doesn't offer manual transmission anymore.




My guess is the same. At least 50% is AT for our cars if not more. It is just that there is a group of noisy MT fanatics that skew perceptions and increase the warranty coverage costs to manufacturers and buyers.

To many of the younger guys (and a handful of the oldsters) MT is new so seems like something mystical and they really do enjoy rowing through the gears at every light or traveling with traffic. I get that and if they enjoy it then all is cool. It is when they feel that everybody should get the same thrill or that AT is somehow demeaning or make people lesser drivers that I object. If this car had an econo slush box out of an 84 K car I would totally agree but the auto in these is far from that and more than up to the challenge. If a 20% difference in the 6 or 7 seconds involved in going 0 to 60 is hampering your driving then tell the guy with the stop watch to quit following you from red light to red light. Trying to shave that 1 second off your time to the car in front of you is not really a great ambition.


I have been driving MT for 45 years and although I do pay attention and enjoy it on those rare occasions I get to play I normally pay no more attention to shifting gears than I do to braking or turning the wheel when I want to turn. It just sort of happens when it needs to with no conscious thought given at all. About 98% of the time I may as well be driving AT for all the thought I put into or enjoyment I get out of pushing a pedal and pulling/pushing a lever.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There have been many anecdotal numbers given and many, many guesses given as "official" but nobody has ever been able to provide one piece of proof as to what the mix actually is..

If you take the First86 group as an example, those of us that registered at some point on here had a breakdown of 22 AT to 50 MT cars. I could see the ratio being reversed for the general population.

Of course, worldwide the AT/MT crowd may have a common enemy that could cause use to unite, at least according to this graphic/article.

Both the number of AT and MT have declined since 2012 with growth in other areas. The CVT growth is disappointing but can't really complain too much about the AMDC growth.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

If you take the First86 group as an example, those of us that registered at some point on here had a breakdown of 22 AT to 50 MT cars. I could see the ratio being reversed for the general population.

Of course, worldwide the AT/MT crowd may have a common enemy that could cause use to unite, at least according to this graphic/article.

Both the number of AT and MT have declined since 2012 with growth in other areas. The CVT growth is disappointing but can't really complain too much about the AMDC growth.

Oh this will bring in the hate mail!


Up until 3 months ago I would have agreed 100% on the CVT. My wife's last two SUVs (Outlander and Outlander Sport) had then and they sucked balls big time. When she got her Impreza the top trim level only came with CVT. It is claimed to have a new gen CVT but I was not hopeful. I have to confess that I was actually impressed by it. Pretty much every aspect of the old ones that I hated has indeed been improved substantially. It is whisper quiet, has some artificial "shift" point so the acceleration isn't so uncannily linear, it has none of that initial acceleration lag and overall just works well. It also has a sports mode and paddles with some pretty decent set "gears". As the tech for this type advances I can easily see it replacing the normal geared ATs.

[Alltezza]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Selective bias at work here?
Yeah, some people do regret buying an auto but many people do not.
Just look at the auto purchasers here.

OP's first choice was an MT to begin with, OP most likely won't be as happy with an AT.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

There was an article in evo magazine about several manufacturers of hot cars reintroducing manual gearboxes to their line ups. Porsche is now offering the new GT3 with one after the success of the 911R. Aston Martin are committed to offering at least one, and I can't remember the rest of the article but there were more.

And what's this about labeling people "noisy MT fanatics"? Some of us enjoy the journey more than the destination. We're not chasing lap times, we're in it for the experience, and I can't see how a semi- or a full-auto gearbox can ever provide that. To each his own, don't be labeling people. Dealers are more likely to sell an automatic car, so they order more of them, and therefore sell more of them. One that I talked to didn't have any manuals in stock at all. A John Smith that goes in there and has a slight preference towards the manual, will settle for auto if that's all there is that day. Very few people are willing to wait cause they're just excited to get a new car, period. 99% of girls I know have no idea how to drive stick, so there's that. Some people consider things like oh if my wife needs to drive the car, or my kids, they won't be able to, so oh well, I'll get the auto. So many people prefer the "safer" choice. A good chunk are scared off with stories of horrible city driving with a stick (still no idea what that's about), and the car being more difficult to sell. Anyway, I'm rambling.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh this will bring in the hate mail!....

Admittedly, haven't driven any of the newer generation ones. All things improve with time so doesn't surprise me. May have to try one when I have a chance.

Of course, if I really wanted to get back to basics and feel connected, I'd go find an old Ford or Chevy truck with a 3 on the tree and a loose pin holding the shifter in place. Now that's real driving.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh that is nicely condescending. "AT is OK if you are physically infirm but otherwise..."


People can't chose it just because they like how it performs? There has to be some other reason for them to degrade themselves to the level of an AT?


#MTFORLIFEYOUNLESSYOUHAVEPHYSICALISSUESOFCOURSE

Why is that condescending? If you have a physical impediment it obviously makes sense to get an auto.

I am simply wondering, out loud, why everyone withOUT a physical impediment whines so much about using a manual as a DD.

You claim that you've driven manual for so long that it's muscle memory for you so I don't imagine you'll have an answer for my question. But aside from doing more stuff, I'm not quite sure why using a MT is such a pain in the arse for DD'ing if the driver has no physical impediment.




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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Admittedly, haven't driven any of the newer generation ones. All things improve with time so doesn't surprise me. May have to try one when I have a chance.

Of course, if I really wanted to get back to basics and feel connected, I'd go find an old Ford or Chevy truck with a 3 on the tree and a loose pin holding the shifter in place. Now that's real driving.

I had three vehicles (58 Nomad, 58 Ford Custom 300 2 door, 76 Ford Econoline) with that. More than once I ended up holding a disconnected shift lever in my hand. Was easy to shift with no gates and primitive synchros though. As long as you were in the general vicinity of the gear you were good to go.
Let's up the ante and go with a purely mechanical clutch that didn't have hydraulic assist. Between that and ramming the lever in gear you got a great workout for one leg and one arm. Even then, pretty much every little old lady on the road was still able to drive them and nobody thought anything of it. I wonder if those old ladies drove them so they felt more connected to the car and got a big smile every time they left a stop light?

[leevanf]

I believe the auto on this car is good enough that it has finally put auto on par / much closer with the manual at least for mixed driving where nobody measures your 0-60 times and laps at every stoplight. Its great because now, the reason to get manual is for your own personal pleasure, or a professional track racer. Versus before or in similar priced options when you'd get a manual because the autos were far worse in many aspects. So i think the AT bar just went higher and the manual stayed the same. Marry those higher standards to a great affordable car, and you have awesomeness. Thereby satisfying more people in the end. Overall, we are all winners!


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[Mule]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

To many of the younger guys (and a handful of the oldsters) MT is new so seems like something mystical and they really do enjoy rowing through the gears at every light or traveling with traffic. I get that and if they enjoy it then all is cool. It is when they feel that everybody should get the same thrill or that AT is somehow demeaning or make people lesser drivers that I object. If this car had an econo slush box out of an 84 K car I would totally agree but the auto in these is far from that and more than up to the challenge. If a 20% difference in the 6 or 7 seconds involved in going 0 to 60 is hampering your driving then tell the guy with the stop watch to quit following you from red light to red light. Trying to shave that 1 second off your time to the car in front of you is not really a great ambition.


I have been driving MT for 45 years and although I do pay attention and enjoy it on those rare occasions I get to play I normally pay no more attention to shifting gears than I do to braking or turning the wheel when I want to turn. It just sort of happens when it needs to with no conscious thought given at all. About 98% of the time I may as well be driving AT for all the thought I put into or enjoyment I get out of pushing a pedal and pulling/pushing a lever.

This car does have a slush box though. Regardless of its sporty 'intentions' the AT is a traditional torque-converter. It's not even as good as Merc's old wet clutch set up in AMGs let alone anything close to the level of VW's DSG.

That's my issue with AT in this car, it's vastly inferior to many other auto boxes out there, the manual is not.

EDIT: to clarify, I'm not calling ppl who choose AT inferior, I'm questioning why ppl who want an AT wouldn't just get a different car altogether with a vastly superior AT - think Golf GTI. I mean hell, everyone in this thread is claiming the AT is the better DD, well a GTI is a better DD to begin with and their DSG is even better, so just get a GTI!!

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[GalloVecchio]

Originally Posted by bzdont

"Automatically less fun"

Headline quote from just-published review over on caranddriver.com

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ic-test-review

Car and Driver!? It MUST be true

I have a '17 AT, Corsa cat-back (now it doesn't sound like an angry sewing machine), drop-in K&N and Fortune Auto 500's. Getting used to the AT/paddles but I love it much more than I don't. When I want manual, I'll ride my motorcycle. Looks great, handles great, doesn't soak me for gas or kill me in traffic. To each his own, so whatever you all choose, this is a car you have to enjoy!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by leevanf

I believe the auto on this car is good enough that it has finally put auto on par / much closer with the manual at least for mixed driving where nobody measures your 0-60 times and laps at every stoplight. Its great because now, the reason to get manual is for your own personal pleasure, or a professional track racer. Versus before or in similar priced options when you'd get a manual because the autos were far worse in many aspects. So i think the AT bar just went higher and the manual stayed the same. Marry those higher standards to a great affordable car, and you have awesomeness. Thereby satisfying more people in the end. Overall, we are all winners!

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