Starting to not like this car anymore

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by radroach

@strat61caster kinda scaring me for a minute about the plugs. I had NGK plugs put in, not sure which specific part but they've worked well.

I've been googling since that post, good info in this post:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8267

Which leads me to believe if you have a set of NGK's that are heat range 9, looks like the same as what's spec'd for the Nissan GTR you're probably in the ballpark (but not saving any money from what I can see).

The worst case I can think of is if you have plugs that are too hot you might get some knock and the car might pull a bit of timing. If they're too cold (unlikely as that's what makes them so expensive for OE in the first place) they would foul and lose performance prematurely.

https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-...rk-plug-basics

And here's some people suggesting alternate parts from NGK and Denso (which is where you posted nearly the exact same statement a year ago):
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105658



Can you save money on spark plugs and be a happy car owner? Probably. But the cheapest NGK heat range 9 plug I can find is still ~$10, I'll pay the extra $10 to get what the OE spec is.

Edit: I've just realized what your profile pic is...

[radroach]

@strat61caster
So far so good for 25k miles, but I do wish I had documented exactly what part number went in.

Thanks! I love Twin Peaks but I thought it was a cool pic because, well the different varieties of donuts represent the different styles / taste each owner applies to their own car making them different. Also I pulled the pic from this mixtape album: https://soundcloud.com/thephantomsrevenge/sets/mixtapes

[ImAdopted]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

100,000 miles and not one issue. Maintenance costs are lower than many cars and are going to exist no matter what you buy. If left stock or properly modded it should not cost much to maintain at all.

im half way there lol. but 95% of my driving is highway so it doesnt gotta work much, just put her in cruise and coast to work

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ImAdopted

im half way there lol. but 95% of my driving is highway so it doesnt gotta work much, just put her in cruise and coast to work

Yep. I am about 98% highway with about another 98% of that on cruise.

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by sunami88

...No one will ever convince me that 4-6 does any appreciable damage. Besides, by the time you're all the way into 5th it's exactly time to go to 6th give or take two seconds... Why bother fussing with the pedal at all? That's a lot more work on the throwout bearing because synchros.

Before it even happens I'll just ask if I should just make my own thread about this lol.

I agree completely. I've been driving manual transmission cars for 45 years and I ALWAYS skip gears. The only time I don't is when I'm driving a motorcycle with a sequential gearbox. The only cars I can think of with sequential gearboxes are F1 cars. And I've never had one of those.

[8RZ]

In my dad's old C5 Vette there was a dash light that told him to shift straight to 4th in order to save gas whenever he floored it in 1st gear lol.

[LudwigMiles]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

But the cheapest NGK heat range 9 plug I can find is still ~$10, I'll pay the extra $10 to get what the OE spec is.

Agreed. If these are high compression plugs (whatever that means), $10 vs $20 is not worth treading weird internet rumor territory. Not a corner worth cutting, but still hard to fathom people are paying $20 for a plug. Talk about nickled and dimed.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by LudwigMiles

but still hard to fathom people are paying $20 for a plug. Talk about nickled and dimed.

It really isn't "nickled and dimed"

Combustion is not a simple science, engine design even less so. This is a ridiculously strung-out engine for the price point and there's zero economies of scale bringing the price point down, and that's been true from day 1. It was well known this sucker would be a unique bird with crazy high compression ratio and an oddball injection system and only a glimmer of hope that this engine would get re-used in another chassis like a base Impreza.

This car is incredibly economical for most of it's consumables, tires, brake rotors, oil filters, cabin filters, 25mpg average, hell for awhile my insurance was <$90/month.

But $20 for a spark plug and the world is ending. imo don't hold your breath for cheaper plugs to show up specific to the 86, like I said there's no economies of scale helping it out so there's little incentive for NGK or someone else to build a plug to this spec. People will figure out an alternative that's sufficient I'm sure, but I'll be surprised if a "standard off the shelf" plug is found.

If Denso was building >1 million per month of these plugs like they do for spark plugs that go into Camry's and Civics, yeah <$10 spark plugs all day long. As it stands they're likely barely making 1/2 million of these things per year.


If you want to know more about why they are expensive click on the NGK article I linked earlier about heat ranges, it covers the basics pretty well.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by paulca

It's why I hated the sticky 2nd gear issue when my first 86 was cold. I would go for 2nd and the car would say "NO!" I always had a moment of conflict. I need 2nd, like now, but the car won't accept it. My choices are to force it or avoid it. Of course then I would return to neutral and ask again for 2nd. If it still didn't give it to me I would declutch in neutral and the try again. Usually this worked.

Thick gear lube drags the the innards to a halt as soon as it's disengaged from both ends. This happens in the middle of the shift while passing through neutral. There isn't enough purchase at the second gear syncro to easily overcome that drag.

If the gearshift is flicked quickly through neutral before the gears have a chance to stall, the second gear syncro doesn't have to drive the input side through the thick lube. That's the trick.

If the window of opportunity is missed, a quick double-clutch can spool up the input side for a second try.

The new 86 Pro gear box has been much nicer, but I have a minor issue with 1st. Sometimes it goes partly into first, but you can feel it hasn't completely mated. If I have time I neutral, declutch, clutch and retry which works most times, but I have taken the chance it's actually in gear enough and raised the clutch to feel that final little notch as it clicks fully in.

I'm sure it will settle ... only 230 miles on the clock so far.

What's the "Pro" gearbox? I'm quite familiar with your technique for encouraging first gear engagement. One of many old school tricks that, sadly, are on their way out.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Thick gear lube drags the the innards to a halt as soon as it's disengaged from both ends. This happens in the middle of the shift while passing through neutral. There isn't enough purchase at the second gear syncro to easily overcome that drag.

If the gearshift is flicked quickly through neutral before the gears have a chance to stall, the second gear syncro doesn't have to drive the input side through the thick lube. That's the trick.

If the window of opportunity is missed, a quick double-clutch can spool up the input side for a second try.


What's the "Pro" gearbox? I'm quite familiar with your technique for encouraging first gear engagement. One of many old school tricks that, sadly, are on their way out.

Do you really think so? I'd bet against that. Not a big bet but still a bet. There's an awful lot of angular momentum in the spinning gear set and shaft(s). And once the gear box oil is warmed up it's not really like molasses.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding

Do you really think so? I'd bet against that. Not a big bet but still a bet. There's an awful lot of angular momentum in the spinning gear set and shaft(s). And once the gear box oil is warmed up it's not really like molasses.

100% positive. Not after it's warm, though.

Been preaching and proving this to skeptics for a couple winters now. Try it.

[e_lunatic]

I'm totally with you on this.
guys will spend however much on FI and other random bits but $100 for plugs and some people lose it haha

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It really isn't "nickled and dimed"

Combustion is not a simple science, engine design even less so. This is a ridiculously strung-out engine for the price point and there's zero economies of scale bringing the price point down, and that's been true from day 1. It was well known this sucker would be a unique bird with crazy high compression ratio and an oddball injection system and only a glimmer of hope that this engine would get re-used in another chassis like a base Impreza.

This car is incredibly economical for most of it's consumables, tires, brake rotors, oil filters, cabin filters, 25mpg average, hell for awhile my insurance was <$90/month.

But $20 for a spark plug and the world is ending. imo don't hold your breath for cheaper plugs to show up specific to the 86, like I said there's no economies of scale helping it out so there's little incentive for NGK or someone else to build a plug to this spec. People will figure out an alternative that's sufficient I'm sure, but I'll be surprised if a "standard off the shelf" plug is found.

If Denso was building >1 million per month of these plugs like they do for spark plugs that go into Camry's and Civics, yeah <$10 spark plugs all day long. As it stands they're likely barely making 1/2 million of these things per year.


If you want to know more about why they are expensive click on the NGK article I linked earlier about heat ranges, it covers the basics pretty well.

[LudwigMiles]

No one is "losing it", and I'm not spending a dime on useless mods, either.
I've just never heard of spark plugs that cost more than $3.
Ever spend $105 on a hamburger? I didn't think so.
That is all. Carry on.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by LudwigMiles

I've just never heard of spark plugs that cost more than $3.

So for giggles I looked up spark plugs on a couple random vehicles on Rock Auto, in the process I found out that they list a Champion REA6MC plug that is ~$7 ea.

I was clicking through to see what spark plugs cost on other vehicles, most have <$5 plugs with a few $5-$8 for the laser iridium platinum double gold, but worth mentioning these three:

2007 F150, 5.4L V8: $6-$12
RX-8, $14-$24
Current Ferrari 6.3L V12: $2.90



Edit: I've spent over $50 on a steak and plan on spending near or over $100 on one in the future, is that close enough?