NorCal (Bay Area) OFF-TOPIC Chat Thread

[My Key]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

I had my buddy @thecarfilmer (thanks again!) give me a ride today in his TEIN Flex Z equipped FR-S.

The ride on the $800 Flex Zs was better than my $2,400 AST 5100s. None of the super bouncy thing I got going on, and the handling was equivalent. Wow.

Different applications, no?

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[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

I had my buddy @thecarfilmer (thanks again!) give me a ride today in his TEIN Flex Z equipped FR-S.

The ride on the $800 Flex Zs was better than my $2,400 AST 5100s. None of the super bouncy thing I got going on, and the handling was equivalent. Wow.

Even though I haven't felt $2,400 coilovers before, I can tell you right now that on the track, they will out perform the Flex Z and will take more of an abuse. I'm sure they'll be more predictive and consistent than the Flex Z. What spring rates and dampening levels do you have on your AST?

[Clipdat]

Yes, very true. I just was under the impression that there would be a distinct difference in damper quality between the two. In terms of how they ride down the street, and how they soak up bumps. Figured the one that costs a lot more would ride that much better.

Originally Posted by My Key

Different applications, no?

What type of abuse are you referring to? Going over the curbs on the track?

Consistency and predictability would be better? Maybe. Hard to say.

The rates are 6k/7k. Flex Z is 6k/6k. Right now I have them set one click from full soft all around. But, I've tried a lot of different settings. One click from full stiff, 4 clicks from full stiff, right in the middle, different settings front and rear, etc.

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Even though I haven't felt $2,400 coilovers before, I can tell you right now that on the track, they will out perform the Flex Z and will take more of an abuse. I'm sure they'll be more predictive and consistent than the Flex Z. What spring rates and dampening levels do you have on your AST?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Yes, very true. I just was under the impression that there would be a distinct difference in damper quality between the two. In terms of how they ride down the street, and how they soak up bumps. Figured the one that costs a lot more would ride that much better.



What type of abuse are you referring to? Going over the curbs on the track?

Consistency and predictability would be better? Maybe. Hard to say.

The rates are 6k/7k. Flex Z is 6k/6k. Right now I have them set one click from full soft all around. But, I've tried a lot of different settings. One click from full stiff, 4 clicks from full stiff, right in the middle, different settings front and rear, etc.

Yeah, going over rumble strips. I'm sure the Flex Z will wear out much faster than your ASTs.

hmm, would have guessed that your spring rates would have been higher. iirc, I have my dampers at either 7 or 8 clicks out of the 16. To me, it's slightly firmer than stock, unless I'm going super slow over a speed bump or other parking lot imperfections. That's when I'll notice it's more firm.

How many miles are on your coils? I think bouncing, in general, is associated with a blown damper?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Also, I just looked up how much Flex Zs would be for the Yaris...$1k! That's more than what I paid for the FR-S's set.

[Clipdat]

Hard to say which would wear out faster. The ASTs have low friction seals and no dust covers, which means more dirt is going to be getting inside them and contributing to wear.

They have just under 2k miles on them.

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Yeah, going over rumble strips. I'm sure the Flex Z will wear out much faster than your ASTs.

hmm, would have guessed that your spring rates would have been higher. iirc, I have my dampers at either 7 or 8 clicks out of the 16. To me, it's slightly firmer than stock, unless I'm going super slow over a speed bump or other parking lot imperfections. That's when I'll notice it's more firm.

How many miles are on your coils? I think bouncing, in general, is associated with a blown damper?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Hard to say which would wear out faster. The ASTs have low friction seals and no dust covers, which means more dirt is going to be getting inside them and contributing to wear.

They have just under 2k miles on them.

Really, no dust covers? I wonder why they decided to do that.

Yeah, don't think your dampers are blown. lol. Anyone else have those coils that you can compare cars to?

[Clipdat]

Probably because racecar, naturally.

I don't think anyone else local has them.

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Really, no dust covers? I wonder why they decided to do that.

Yeah, don't think your dampers are blown. lol. Anyone else have those coils that you can compare cars to?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Probably because racecar, naturally.

I don't think anyone else local has them.

I'm still curious on the reasoning. Weight savings?

Maybe try posting in the suspension forum asking those with the same coils about their ride quality and experiences?

[Clipdat]

I asked in the suspension forum already months ago. Here are some of the replies:

Originally Posted by Pat

That's a big help, thank you. I was told they normally spec 5K springs for those dampers, so 6/7 might be a little much, but still totally within reason. Is it possible the weak point in the chain is now bushings? You said, "the car will "pogo" with the weight/energy rapidly dispersing and bouncing between front and rear 4 or 5 times before stopping." The use of the word "rapidly" makes me think it's simply bushings that are made to be used with OEM suspension and their softness is now highlighted by how stiff the rest of the system is.
I would be very surprised if the damping was not up to the job, though. If springs overpower shocks you can get bouncing similar to what you reference, but again, I don't think that's what you're feeling.
Later in your post you refer to micro-bouncing and resonance. Those words just support my theory even more, although it can be difficult to diagnose over teh intarwebs.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

That sounds like it could be an extremely overdamped situation, as in the damper not really moving much at all or packed down. OEM bushings with coilovers doesn't really get you those effects but I do see where you're going with that line of thought.

ASTs can be quite good...we've noticed they are often valved very aggressively though. Some of the custom valved sets we've tested were fantastic but straight from AST they can be very stiff.

- Andrew

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

It's hard to tell exactly how much travel they have when they're inverted, but the grease there gives a little bit of a clue. To me it sounds very overdamped. The double digressive piston may not make things better depending on how it's valved. It really shouldn't be that stiff (even on the track, what you're describing is not ideal). ASTs are IMO a good shock, these just sounds a little funky.

- Andrew

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Maybe try posting in the suspension forum asking those with the same coils about their ride quality and experiences?

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

I asked in the suspension forum already months ago. Here are some of the replies:

Here's my theory: Valving. I think the ASTs are just much more aggressively valved for "performance" driving than day to day. I think what you are feeling is the AST's high-speed (curbs, sharp bumps, etc) biased dampening vs the Tien's more "street" low-speed (regular bumps, weight transfer, etc) biased dampening. Dampers are usually valved to work with a specific spring rate, so not sure, maybe they need to be revalved?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4TIBuVYSJw"]Part 2, KW Damper Dynamics - YouTube[/ame]

[Kaotic Lazagna]

They must be super aggressive since you have then almost set to full soft. Crazy!

[spike021]

I need to install my inlet tube this weekend but need a flathead screw driver lol.

[Clipdat]

"So get a flathead screw driver..."

Originally Posted by spike021

I need to install my inlet tube this weekend but need a flathead screw driver lol.