Subaru Testing a BRZ with STI Badging and a Big Wing

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nothing wrong with wanting more power because you find it exhilarating of exciting. I went through that stage in driving 30 years ago and no longer get enjoyment from pushing a pedal for a 10 second burst of speed.

Absolutely. And for the price of a BRZ/86 you can get a Mustang that does that very well. Heck, I almost went that route. Nothinng wrong with it. But I don't understand people that want this car to be a Mustang/Camaro. Or even a Cayman.

[spike021]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I think some people are afraid to go over 6000RPM.

I mean, I haven't yet. But I can still pass cars and stuff in the 4000-5000 RPM range.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I think some people are afraid to go over 6000RPM.

This. It's not how "normal cars" are driven today. I fully admit three months in I'm still not accustomed to it. And I when I do keep her in the 4000-6000 RPM range where she excels, I get an awful lot of harsh looks due to the growl.

It's a different driving mindset that is in stark opposition to today's standards.

[DSOmegaX]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Now we get into a whole different world of issues then. Technically speaking nobody should do ANY changes to the car if worried about warranty. They also should not participate in any thing that could even remotely be called a "race event" because that can lead to denial as well.


It is sort of odd that they worked so close with the aftermarket to develop pats and promote the car as track ready but will so quickly refuse warranty work if you do either.


As I have said many times I do not understand why they never came up with a factory authorized FI system like they did on the tC. Would seem to be the answer to some complaints. Still would not be "good enough" for many though I suppose since it would be nowhere close to that magic "needs 300hp" statement that get's thrown out so often.

I can. Because of the sheer amount of money it would cost to certify the engine to be compliant to regulation standards, not to mention to test and validate its long term effects on other components of the car. There's a reason why aftermarket solutions have liability waivers and advertise their products as "track use only." Subaru has to consider that everything must work fine for the standard and extended warranty periods unless they want to pay in both actual resources and reputation for cars that may fail left and right. Add to that they would have to go through this process for every market it releases the car to. These are things that consumers don't consider when they think "why can't they just simply drop a 5k turbo kit like all the aftermarket companies".

[johan]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Now we get into a whole different world of issues then. Technically speaking nobody should do ANY changes to the car if worried about warranty. They also should not participate in any thing that could even remotely be called a "race event" because that can lead to denial as well.


It is sort of odd that they worked so close with the aftermarket to develop pats and promote the car as track ready but will so quickly refuse warranty work if you do either.


As I have said many times I do not understand why they never came up with a factory authorized FI system like they did on the tC. Would seem to be the answer to some complaints. Still would not be "good enough" for many though I suppose since it would be nowhere close to that magic "needs 300hp" statement that get's thrown out so often.

It's actually smart on their part.

If you put those parts on your car, or take your car to the track and they find out - it's grounds for them to legally deny warranty claims on anything related to the engine / drivetrain. Most people won't push hard enough to actually force the dealer to comply with Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act (in the USA), so they're actually actively reducing their warranty liability on these cars by encouraging modding/tracking... and as we all know, since this car is low volume, the warranty they provide costs them more than the average commuter box, since lower volume parts === more dollars.

I know that's a shitty glass half empty perspective, but business/marketing people are smart and they think of these kinds of strategies to reduce costs over time.

[BFIFE22]

Hopefully we can now get the grille and rear bumper accents from a parts catalog

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

I can. Because of the sheer amount of money it would cost to certify the engine to be compliant to regulation standards, not to mention to test and validate its long term effects on other components of the car. There's a reason why aftermarket solutions have liability waivers and advertise their products as "track use only." Subaru has to consider that everything must work fine for the standard and extended warranty periods unless they want to pay in both actual resources and reputation for cars that may fail left and right. Add to that they would have to go through this process for every market it releases the car to. These are things that consumers don't consider when they think "why can't they just simply drop a 5k turbo kit like all the aftermarket companies".

LOL You practically wrote my normal spiel! Almost word for word in some spots.


The consideration for the my statement this time (which does at least appear to be contrary to my normal stand which is the same as yours) was that Toyota did indeed go through the process to offer a small SC for the tC and it was also a low production car. Now, that being said it also was nothing to do with Subaru so that may be the difference this time around.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

I can. Because of the sheer amount of money it would cost to certify the engine to be compliant to regulation standards, not to mention to test and validate its long term effects on other components of the car. There's a reason why aftermarket solutions have liability waivers and advertise their products as "track use only." Subaru has to consider that everything must work fine for the standard and extended warranty periods unless they want to pay in both actual resources and reputation for cars that may fail left and right. Add to that they would have to go through this process for every market it releases the car to. These are things that consumers don't consider when they think "why can't they just simply drop a 5k turbo kit like all the aftermarket companies".

That doesn't stop companies from offering factory upgrades. Honda had a OEM supercharger available for the CRZ and Dodge had a big turbo upgrade for the SRT-4.

[fourdegrees]

The more I think about it, the less buying one of these over the PP makes sense. Unless they do but a lot of the uprated bushings into this, there's really nothing one can't do on their own. The draw stiffener and v-brace from JapanParts run about $1000. Wheels are running around $1400.


For me the wing is a bit nuts. So there I'm paying for something I don't really want. The PP is definitely the happy medium. Brembos and the final drive is money alone is almost worth it to me to upgrade. Plus the multitude of small changes they made throughout the car that would be tough to duplicate on my own.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Would seem to be the answer to some complaints. Still would not be "good enough" for many though I suppose since it would be nowhere close to that magic "needs 300hp" statement that get's thrown out so often.

The problem is that as soon as it got that 300hp from Subaru, somehow, the next day, it would need 350hp.

[WolfpackS2k]

^Yeah well a big criticism of Subaru, and one that's warranted, is that the horsepower has stayed the same while its weight has increased. If you're gonna leave the power alone okay, then reduce weight. People want visible obvious improvements and bang for their buck. When the STI first came to the US in the early 2000s the Ford Mustang couldn't handle worth a crap and in GT form had 260 hp. Fast forward to present day and it learned how to handle, as well as offer 435 hp. Personally I have little interest in the Mustang, or STI, due to their heftiness but for some people it's a valid comparison.

EDIT: Sorry I thought you were talking about the WRX STI, not some fictional BRZ STI. Still, I think your argument is crap. Sure "some" people would have that viewpoint. But personally I think a 10:1 ratio for a sports car is just about perfect. I've owned my Cayman S for 4 years and haven't done a thing to it to gain more power - nor do I have any burning desire to do so either.

As I have said many times I do not understand why they never came up with a factory authorized FI system like they did on the tC. Would seem to be the answer to some complaints. Still would not be "good enough" for many though I suppose since it would be nowhere close to that magic "needs 300hp" statement that get's thrown out so often.

Yeah that kind of boggles the mind. They offered an FI kit for the tC and even for the Tacoma (I mean come on!). But a bonafide sports car? Nah.

Perhaps people used to driving Hondas are spoiled, but a sentiment shared amongst many of the H faithful is that the BRZ would be great if it's engine was remotely similar to the K20 found under the hood of an RSX Type S or 9th Gen Civic - even if it still just had 200-205 hp. But it doesn't. I struggled with my (stock) BRZ ownership when it became clear that the engine in my 20+ year old Integra GS-R had more personality, was more fun to peg to redline, and sounded better doing it (though I admit aftermarket bolt-on mods helped with that).

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

If they wanted a Sedan to go fast in a straight line, I have no idea why the hell any of them bought a Subaru.

Yup I think maybe that crowd is probably too young to remember the WRX STI and Lancer Evo were rally inspired products made not just for small displacement high output, but most importantly for grip and handling, with tricked electronics like DCCD and AYC.

Maybe the car makers were right not to sell them here back in the 90's lol!

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by fourdegrees

The more I think about it, the less buying one of these over the PP makes sense. Unless they do but a lot of the uprated bushings into this, there's really nothing one can't do on their own. The draw stiffener and v-brace from JapanParts run about $1000. Wheels are running around $1400.

It'll cost you much much more, it'll take time, you'll have extra installation costs and you'll still miss important parts. They never publish all the changes and the best way to find them is to compare the complete parts catalog side by side (i.e. US tS vs. PP). Even if you find all the parts, factory will not provide all of them to you. Some require to have a valid tS VIN number. It really doesn't worth it. Some guys did it here, because at that time the tS model was available only in Japan.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

The problem is that as soon as it got that 300hp from Subaru, somehow, the next day, it would need 350hp.

Exactly! And then 400 then 500 and on forever. The fact that very few people can actually drive a 300+ HP, 2600 pound, rwd car properly on city streets and changing weather is irrelevant since the numbers are all that matter.