Subaru Testing a BRZ with STI Badging and a Big Wing

[2013dgmbrzdood]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

Of course. For the BRZ though the profit margin is low, especially in the US where BRZ prices are lower than most equivalent markets. This doesn't really incentivize Subaru to continue pursuing such products in the future.

I'm fairly certain that one of the reasons the Us is finally getting some form of a tS vehicle is that they're looking to liquidate remaining parts inventory. It's one of the reasons why certain tS parts previously restricted for sale are slowly being unlocked as they try to rid excess immaterial inventory

I dunno, sounds logical but that spoiler although fugly as hell is a serious piece of kit. That ain't no left over part. With such small profit margins it's hard to imagine they'd make a brz PP with spoiler but who knows.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Where is your source for that? I didn't know the turbo foresters outsold the NA ones.


It makes sense though, because AWD turbo.....

Source = I work for SOA, so, me?

[Pat]

It seems to me like the aftermarket has already figured out many of the changes, and likely for better value. I'll be interested to see what you get for the money.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

Of course. For the BRZ though the profit margin is low, especially in the US where BRZ prices are lower than most equivalent markets. This doesn't really incentivize Subaru to continue pursuing such products in the future.

I'm fairly certain that one of the reasons the Us is finally getting some form of a tS vehicle is that they're looking to liquidate remaining parts inventory. It's one of the reasons why certain tS parts previously restricted for sale are slowly being unlocked as they try to rid excess immaterial inventory

I feel like the BRZ is there more for positive brand image than profits. There is no denying that it is a very popular car for tuners. It is exotic looking, and probably lures in people to the dealership and then they end up driving away in a WRX.


It makes good business sense to make parts seem limited and special at first, so people will pay a premium for them. Then, after a while you can lower the price and sell the parts to a larger crowd down the line. Like how Nintendo made very limited amounts of the NES Classic and created a demand, only to end up making more once the craze died down.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

I'm fairly certain that one of the reasons the Us is finally getting some form of a tS vehicle is that they're looking to liquidate remaining parts inventory. It's one of the reasons why certain tS parts previously restricted for sale are slowly being unlocked as they try to rid excess immaterial inventory

This doesn't make sense with modern just in time inventory control.

[DSOmegaX]

Originally Posted by krayzie

This doesn't make sense with modern just in time inventory control.

just in time inventory control is harder in practice and most if not all manufacturers will carry more excess based on sales forecast. Parts stored for available repair parts, etc. But as forecasts drop, production drops, and inventory maintained based on the initial forecast may be released to prevent excess storage time.

Parts aren't built to order. Not only is that extremely costly for the manufacturer, but best practice is to always have inventory on hand when the customer needs it so there is no delay; therefore, there will always be some excess, but fluctuates based on actual use over time.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

just in time inventory control is harder in practice and most if not all manufacturers will carry more excess based on sales forecast. Parts stored for available repair parts, etc. But as forecasts drop, production drops, and inventory maintained based on the initial forecast may be released to prevent excess storage time.

Parts aren't built to order. Not only is that extremely costly for the manufacturer, but best practice is to always have inventory on hand when the customer needs it so there is no delay; therefore, there will always be some excess, but fluctuates based on actual use over time.

Yea except for the STI sport muffler which was built to order and took 3 weeks.

I think for most parts that appear on their aftermarket catalog, they will order a batch run, sell until it dries up and then order another batch run or just discontinue altogether.

If they are bringing out a standard model like this new BRZ STI globally they will install everything at the production line (as opposed to the tS models which are done at STI for two weeks after the standard car is shipped to them) and probably would require more parts to be produced instead of liquidating their current stock. This new car is a FHI / Subaru Corp product now and no longer a bespoked venture by STI anymore sorta speak.

[DSOmegaX]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Yea except for the STI sport muffler which was built to order and took 3 weeks.

I think for most parts that appear on their aftermarket catalog, they will order a batch run, sell until it dries up and then order another batch run or just discontinue altogether.

If they are bringing out a standard model like this new BRZ STI globally they will install everything at the production line (as opposed to the tS models which are done at STI for two weeks after the standard car is shipped to them) and probably would require more parts to be produced instead of liquidating their current stock. This new car is a FHI / Subaru Corp product now and no longer a bespoked venture by STI anymore sorta speak.

I get that, but I stand by that this car is still bespoke for the US market only. This is not a new model, just a special edition for a specific market. Again, if this was a major global release, Boxerfest (which is just a glorified car meet) would not be where such a car would make its debut; it would be done at a major auto show. All the limited market "series" edition cars were debuted as these car meets; this is no different.

If this was a "true" tS car being developed by STI, the car would be caught testing at the Nurburgring or Suzuka, not on the streets of Michigan.

Obviously I could be wrong, and I would like to be wrong as this would be continued positive support that Subaru and STI will continue to develop and release niche enthusiast cars, but looking at their past activities, it's just hard to see them developing this as something actually "new."

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

If this was a "true" tS car being developed by STI, the car would be caught testing at the Nurburgring or Suzuka, not on the streets of Michigan.

Not surprising. Back in the glory days of Temple of Vtec in the 90's people were chasing down pre-production standard Honda models around my neck of the woods in Toronto just to take pictures (Honda Canada HQ is like a 10 min drive from my house).

When my old man sold Acuras we had the only pre-production 2.5 TL after the autoshow for the weekend so he could show it to a few potential buyers. The only difference is that this BRZ is not announced yet.

I don't think they will pursue tS models anymore like I've said before. These days most car makers want to just integrate their motorsport arm branding into their standard lineup for marketing purposes. The 1st gen Impreza WRX STI was probably their first attempt at this (Legacy STI was a limited bespoked STI product and came out many years before). AMG's timeline with Merc is a good example.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

A 50-100 hp increase is not a minor change. Maybe it is for a tuner, not for a manufacturer.

I was more arguing that 250-300HP doesn't require a total redeisgn of the entire car to add AWD. If that was the case, things like the Hellcat and Demon wouldn't exist.

Originally Posted by krayzie

Don't waste your breath arguing with them they aren't part of the car industry like on sites such as TTAC.

Only arguing that his assumption for the need for AWD is absurd. I know they would beef up the entire drivetrain at the very least.

[DSOmegaX]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Not surprising. Back in the glory days of Temple of Vtec in the 90's people were chasing down pre-production standard Honda models around my neck of the woods in Toronto just to take pictures (Honda Canada HQ is like a 10 min drive from my house).

When my old man sold Acuras we had the only pre-production 2.5 TL after the autoshow for the weekend so he could show it to a few potential buyers. The only difference is that this BRZ is not announced yet.

I don't think they will pursue tS models anymore like I've said before. These days most car makers want to just integrate their motorsport arm branding into their standard lineup for marketing purposes. The 1st gen Impreza WRX STI was probably their first attempt at this (Legacy STI was a limited bespoked STI product and came out many years before). AMG's timeline with Merc is a good example.

Well the tS or whatever bespoke STI lineups are still going. The most recent ones were the XV Crosstrek tS (lol I know) and the WRX S4 tS. Regardless of what is finally being released in US market, there will always be more exclusive models for Japan consumption only. And actually since you pointed out the Legacy, all signs point to the current Legacy as the next car to get that STI bespoke treatment (again, most likely a tS model designation).

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Poodles

I was more arguing that 250-300HP doesn't require a total redeisgn of the entire car to add AWD. If that was the case, things like the Hellcat and Demon wouldn't exist.

It doesn't require a total redesign of a car, but... it's not going to happen and here's why:

The twins were introduced in 2012 as a 2013 model, right before the HP arms race went bonkers. They're nearing the end of their life cycle. Other cars (4 banger turbo Mustangs and Camaros) have come out since that are getting more powerful and lighter, making steep competition for the twins. Those two cars, along with the Hellcat, come from the big three. Subaru spends about an equivalent percentage of revenue on R&D as the major players, sometimes even a higher percentage. Given that SOA sells a fraction of the cars as the huge companies, R&D budget is therefore much smaller.

It's not as simple as saying "Well, we've got some FA20DITs laying around, let's drop it in the BRZ so everyone shuts up." It doesn't just drop in, and changing the car to make it fit is a much larger ordeal than most people think. It's lots of new parts, lots of new certifications, and lower average fleet fuel economy.

So, if you're at the helm of a small car company experiencing exponential growth, and you have the opportunity to choose two of the following:

A) Go through the major project of adding 60hp to a sports car that usually sells 400 cars a month

B) Make an entirely new vehicle in an incredibly popular segment that you currently don't have a product in which will likely sell 15,000-20,000 a month

C) Start figuring out hybrid technology because let's face it, you have to...

Which two would you choose?

Subaru is putting their money where they will be most profitable. Years down the line if SOA is lucky enough to continue the growth they're hoping for, they may have larger budgets to do things like drop a new motor in a car halfway through its life cycle. For now, it's just not realistic.

[trippinbillies40]

Also, not to sound cocky, but I imagine I could lap a stock BRZ around a race track faster than 99.9% of people who complain they need more power could in a FI BRZ. That being the case, I'll argue that those people haven't experienced the car truly on it's limit, and therefore have no idea why the cars are the way they are. And if they want more power for daily driving, well, go back to the Hellcat?

[DSOmegaX]

Originally Posted by Poodles

I was more arguing that 250-300HP doesn't require a total redeisgn of the entire car to add AWD. If that was the case, things like the Hellcat and Demon wouldn't exist.



Only arguing that his assumption for the need for AWD is absurd. I know they would beef up the entire drivetrain at the very least.

Redesigning the platform may be "simple," but if you've never been part of product development for a major manufacturer in an industry that is regulated, the process of such a redesign costs a very significant amount of money and time. The entire platform would at a minimum require retesting, requalification, and recertification to be sold as safe and reliable. As point out above, this takes away heavy resources from developing other projects that will provide them better ROI.