Subaru Testing a BRZ with STI Badging and a Big Wing

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by armstrom

While your comment about the formula for friction is fundamentally correct it is incorrectly applied to tire grip. The statement that friction is independent of contact area is only true if the coefficient of friction remains constant. The rubber compounds used in tires actually change coefficient of friction as pressure increases. A wider tire distributes the weight of a car across a larger contact patch surface area. Even if the coefficient of friction between tire and road were constant a wider tire would still be preferable for grip. The fundamental laws of sliding friction do not address the ability of the material to withstand the forces involved without being destroyed. The friction force between the tire and road has to be absorbed entirely by the contact patch. A smaller contact patch results in a greater force trying to rip individual rubber molecules from the main body of the tire.

Hi Matt
In fact the total area of the contact patch is not changing. With a wider wheel/tire combo, you just change the shape and make it shorter and wider. Check a picture:



Wide tires provide mainly advantages in better heat management, because you have less tire deflection.

[Dorb]

So much for our cheap entry level sports car. With more stuff it will move up into another category with bigger and better players then everyone will be crying about the price. They need to stick with what they planned, entry level fun sports car.(compete with Miata and Focus ST, and others)

And what is with the big wing. A wing that size better be packing some serious power to back it. That was the first and only reason I bought my 16 STI Limited finally when they allowed the wing delete. Guess after a certain age you will realize how silly they look, but that is just me.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Dorb

They need to stick with what they planned, entry level fun sports car.(compete with Miata and Focus ST, and others)

Agreed, if they came out with something a few hundred pounds lighter that would get my attention.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Zaku

I hope that this will give us parts! in the US catalog kinda like the TRD stuff here. I would love the STI springs and the little bits and badges. I want factory parts dammit!

You'll probably need to buy the shocks too as the aftermarket STI damper kit comes in a set.

I sold my pink springs for stock shocks a long time ago maybe you can find them used, or Japanparts, or walk into Mitaka Subaru the next time you are in Tokyo.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Dorb

So much for our cheap entry level sports car. With more stuff it will move up into another category with bigger and better players then everyone will be crying about the price. They need to stick with what they planned, entry level fun sports car.(compete with Miata and Focus ST, and others)

There's ONE thing they can add to this car to make a higher MSRP actually welcomed. They know it. We know it. It's the biggest elephant I've ever seen sitting in a showroom.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

There's ONE thing they can add to this car to make a higher MSRP actually welcomed. They know it. We know it. It's the biggest elephant I've ever seen sitting in a showroom.

No. As soon as they do that one thing and the price jumps everybody that whines will just say the may as well get a WRX for the same money. It isn't as easy as that.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Hi Matt
In fact the total area of the contact patch is not changing. With a wider wheel/tire combo, you just change the shape and make it shorter and wider. Check a picture:



Wide tires provide mainly advantages in better heat management, because you have less tire deflection.

The shorter wider contact patch also runs slightly cooler than the longer narrower one due to more favourable airflow. At very high heat loads, such as under fast track conditions, the low profile tire stays "in the window" for longer. A lot of heat is generated producing grip at the road surface in addition to the heat induced by the slip angle distortion. At the limits of traction you explore on the track the contact patch scrubs across the road, it doesn't just creep. The contact patch heats the tire while the rest of the tire is cooled by the airflow. The net difference is the cause of the temperature change. The shorter contact patch is cooled for slightly longer, proportionally, than the longer contact patch.

Lower profile tires reach peak grip sooner due to smaller slip angles but they also let go more abruptly when the slip angle limit is reached. The most difficult engineering problem facing the very first "ultra low profile tires", (meaning then 60 series tires!) was this abrupt breakaway characteristic pretty much engineered out now. Something similar occurred for similar reasons when radial tires first began replacing bias ply tires. The reduction of grip when the peak slip angle was reached was quite abrupt for a radial tire. We have all got used to that characteristic now since nobody fits bias ply tires any longer

[Drambeenie]

I noticed in the spy shots that it has the some front fog light/grill area as this concept. I think it'll be exactly this but with a bigger wing.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No. As soon as they do that one thing and the price jumps everybody that whines will just say the may as well get a WRX for the same money. It isn't as easy as that.

I just mean add/change the power. Not necessarily a turbo.

But even with a turbo solution, I don't agree with you. "You should just get a WRX" is already a common sentiment. Adding more power will actually help mitigate that.

And actually, I DO think it's as easy as that. I grew up on domestic stuff. Mustangs, Camaros, whatever. When Ford wanted more power, they added a supercharger (Terminators, Lightnings, etc.). When GM wanted more power they added displacement (LS2, LS3, LS7). And somehow, despite all the excuses I've seen on this board, those companies made it work. Dodge... makes it work. Of all people.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by Drambeenie

I noticed in the spy shots that it has the some front fog light/grill area as this concept. I think it'll be exactly this but with a bigger wing.

That would be a great color on the new car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I just mean add/change the power. Not necessarily a turbo.

But even with a turbo solution, I don't agree with you. "You should just get a WRX" is already a common sentiment. Adding more power will actually help mitigate that.

I just mean it as an example of how fickle buyers (or more accurately people that pretend they would buy) can be. If they give it a boost to 250 then "it needs to be at least 350 to be any good". If they raise it more than $5K then "I can get a insert high HP car here for that kind of money". Many of the commenters on reviews and such that complain about not enough HP have never driven the car and would never buy it even if it has a gazillion HP.
The people that will buy the car either do not care about HP or understand that they will have to change it themselves. This will not change one bit if the raise the HP by less than 50% of the current rate. A high HP version is a niche market within a niche but people will still want it at a high production volume car price. It won't be.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I just mean add/change the power. Not necessarily a turbo.

But even with a turbo solution, I don't agree with you. "You should just get a WRX" is already a common sentiment. Adding more power will actually help mitigate that.

And actually, I DO think it's as easy as that. I grew up on domestic stuff. Mustangs, Camaros, whatever. When Ford wanted more power, they added a supercharger (Terminators, Lightnings, etc.). When GM wanted more power they added displacement (LS2, LS3, LS7). And somehow, despite all the excuses I've seen on this board, those companies made it work. Dodge... makes it work. Of all people.

I mean they already kind of have a 2.5 bottom end.....


In all reality they could address the elephant a multiple ways, and I'm about 98% sure the majority of the "no more power" crowd would instantly be wanting to upgrade somehow.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I just mean it as an example of how fickle buyers (or more accurately people that pretend they would buy) can be. If they give it a boost to 250 then "it needs to be at least 350 to be any good". If they raise it more than $5K then "I can get a insert high HP car here for that kind of money". Many of the commenters on reviews and such that complain about not enough HP have never driven the car and would never buy it even if it has a gazillion HP.
The people that will buy the car either do not care about HP or understand that they will have to change it themselves. This will not change one bit if the raise the HP by less than 50% of the current rate. A high HP version is a niche market within a niche but people will still want it at a high production volume car price. It won't be.

I think you're underestimating the number of people who, like me, would be absolutely fine with merely another 50ft/lbs and no torque dip. 200/200 would make this car a damn BLAST.

Sure, there would be people who still made fun of the car but that's just reality. Ford vs Chevy is an American tradition and has given us some great memes over the years, lol.

But you're right, there's a lot of variables to it. Will it cost an extra $8k to get me a 200/200 86? Well, then, no, I won't be buying that. Or, I'd at least wait and buy used.

[Lantana frs]

Imo they could offer a header tune package like the cosworth that.didn't cost 5k.