Gas Premium or regular?

[evike]

ive only ever filled up with 94, its right by my house so it works for me.

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I am not aware of how it is converted so you may have a point there.

Cornell University professor David Pimentel estimates that it takes approximately 1.3 gal. of oil to produce a single gallon of ethanol.

Follow the money. Ethanol has no legitimate place in North American fuels.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Shinigami301

Cornell University professor David Pimentel estimates that it takes approximately 1.3 gal. of oil to produce a single gallon of ethanol.

Follow the money. Ethanol has no legitimate place in North American fuels.

Meh. I looked that up and am not convinced that the source is unbiased or accurate.


Organic Consumers Association
Campaigning for health, justice, sustainability, peace, and democracy



For every statement I can find that this is true I can find one that says it is not.

Sort of one of those topics that there are so many myths, common beliefs and conflicting data on both sides that they are almost undebatable beyond "this is what I read and it makes sense so must be right".

Here is one that gives both sides equal billing.

http://alternativeenergy.procon.org/...stionID=001261

[extrashaky]

I look at it like this: If ethanol were a viable alternative energy solution, it wouldn't need government subsidies because it would pay for itself.

Meanwhile, those subsidies are causing negative externalities. In 2008 there were food crises in developing countries that have been traced back to crops and land being diverted from the world food supply to energy production. All those feel-good environmental laws led to people starving in Asia, Africa and South America, all because bureaucrats thought they could manage that part of the economy better than the Invisible Hand.

There's a simple solution to the whole debate. Just remove the subsidies. If ethanol is really the wonderful energy solution its proponents think it is, the industry will do just fine without them. If the industry folds in on itself instead, we'll know it wasn't.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I look at it like this: If ethanol were a viable alternative energy solution, it wouldn't need government subsidies because it would pay for itself.

Meanwhile, those subsidies are causing negative externalities. In 2008 there were food crises in developing countries that have been traced back to crops and land being diverted from the world food supply to energy production. All those feel-good environmental laws led to people starving in Asia, Africa and South America, all because bureaucrats thought they could manage that part of the economy better than the Invisible Hand.

There's a simple solution to the whole debate. Just remove the subsidies. If ethanol is really the wonderful energy solution its proponents think it is, the industry will do just fine without them. If the industry folds in on itself instead, we'll know it wasn't.

Since I personally have zero stand on the subject since it is so politically charged and there is such extremely different information presented by each side that I can find one side or the other that convinces me they are correct I think that is the PERFECT solution.


They would need to level the playing field by not giving anything to the oil industry as well though (I could never figure out why they do give them breaks anyway).

[Hooked]

Flex Fuel kit and e85 tune.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They would need to level the playing field by not giving anything to the oil industry as well though (I could never figure out why they do give them breaks anyway).

The purposes and results of the two subsidies are different. Oil subsidies are intended to reduce the cost of fuel to the end consumer, and as a result reduce prices throughout the economy for all industries that rely on petroleum (which are most of them). Subsidizing oil exploration and production doesn't take crude oil away from other industries that need it. Those subsidies support all industries.

The ethanol subsidies, in contrast, are intended to encourage production of ethanol in a market where there is already a more cost-effective competitor (gasoline). Ethanol costs too much to produce for many producers to enter the market, so governments have tried to make up the difference to encourage more production. That production comes at the cost of the use of land and feedstock for food production, causing food prices to rise. And it's not just corn that rises. When the supply of food corn is reduced, the prices of rice and wheat also rise as demand shifts to those commodities. While rice production may remain stable, land that would have been used for wheat is repurposed to corn production to take advantage of the ethanol subsidy, further exacerbating food shortages and rising prices.

There is a serious ethical issue in providing ethanol subsidies that doesn't exist with oil subsidies. Oil subsidies benefit the poor and provide a redistribution of wealth, in that the people who most benefit from the lower prices are the same people who pay the least in taxes for those benefits. Ethanol subsidies, in contrast, benefit only the producers of ethanol at a detriment to poor people whose food prices rise. And those subsidies severely impact the ultra poor in third world countries whose food supply relies either directly or indirectly on exports from the United States, while they have no say in the matter at all and are completely at our mercy. How disgusting it is that people are starving so we can pretend to be doing something good for the environment by burning corn.

[NARFALICIOUS]

I wonder if people running E85 know how much more corrosive it is.

[Apoc]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

I wonder if people running E85 know how much more corrosive it is.

Pulled some info for you from http://flexfuelus.com.s165617.gridse...ked-questions/

Today’s vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and gasoline. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets may have issues from long term exposure to water. For corrosion to develop high levels of moisture are required. E85 is produced from dry-milled ethanol, which contains less than 0.5% moisture, which is required by law based on ASTM E85 fuel standard. Corrosion requires minimum moisture levels of at least 4% or greater. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Because most states have gone to E10 or gasohol, we no longer experience moisture buildup in fuel delivery systems.

[Scrappydoo]

Can you use petrol if you can't get hold of gas?

[yelsew]

Originally Posted by Scrappydoo

Can you use petrol if you can't get hold of gas?

Only EUDM cars are compatible with petrol. USDM and Canadian vehicles will only accept gasoline.

[Syche]

So I bought mine used from a Honda dealer and they filled it with regular the tank only last 300 kms but I took it to work put a fuel injection cleaner in the tank and beat on it till she ran out I have a lot of customers do it usually it's fine but with 12.5:1 I wouldn't do it every day. Anyways new tank of el primo 94 today and butt dyno is happy my car also only has 19000 km so i wasn't too worried she was beat up on


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[VoltsFRS2013]

Both auto and manual require premium. It may be a bit more
Expensive but you will get higher MPG and a better running car and most likely. Car that last longer, so what's worth more?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by VoltsFRS2013

Both auto and manual require premium. It may be a bit more
Expensive but you will get higher MPG and a better running car and most likely. Car that last longer, so what's worth more?

They recommend 93 or higher
They require 91 or higher


"They" meaning the owner manual.