My review of the FRS (RW Steer discussion)

[ragingSPAM]

Originally Posted by cgrey

I was just thinking about that.

In fact, let's borrow that video:

LOL hillarious...that guys sounds like Khan from king of the hill hahaha awesomeness

[Skyhound]

Originally Posted by cgrey

Didn't you see the videos he posted? His evidence is irrefutable. I'm trying to find an S2000 right now because it doesn't have artificially enhanced handling.

Maybe it's because I'm not very good at subtle hints of a car's handling from the outside, but I saw literally nothing in those videos. Only difference was that the S2K was recorded much more dynamically than the FR-S. Oh and all of the tire squeal from the S.

Using balding tires may be more "fun" but it certainly isn't appropriate for true driving. I have never heard of using spent tires anything other than for Drift beginners who need help sliding a car.

Nobody here has a problem with negative opinions, just a problem with uneducated ones. They didn't set the car for the best drive possible and then come here to bash on it.

[Silp3]

It's one thing to throw around words like yaw and vtec and try to teach car buffs. But it's quite another when you open a forum thread with such arrogance and ****iness. You must be a professional race car driver. Probably not though. Good try though maybe next years revisions.

[AaronCompNetSys]

Wow, I didn't know this forum turned into such haters. Pretty much all of your childish callouts are false, such as the trans was in sport.

I'll just leave now.

[Wepeel]

Originally Posted by AaronCompNetSys

This trait is noticeable more in some cars (Impulse RS) and not as much in others, but its a trait Subaru builds into its suspension geometry. The magical reactive steering that you hear people talk about with this car, its because it has a high amount of rear wheel steer. In short: as the suspension compresses, the tire toe changes, inducing a bit of extra yaw. This effect helps make the car feel like its pivoting around its center, but has its limits. Its great for AWD because it helps relieve some of the strain put on the fronts under power. In the FRS, the effect is so strong you feel it on the smallest of inputs.

As I understand it, the GR Impreza rear suspension, which looks very similar to the BRZ/FRS (and shares components with), will actually toe-IN with articulation (bump and droop). This would actually have the opposite effect of what you're describing.

[Draco-REX]

Considering I was able to hang the tail of BRZ out around a long left-hand sweeper at an AutoX yesterday without using the e-brake, I have to wonder about the OP's declaration that it can't get the tail out.

Hell, considering all the video evidence of this car drifting, I again wonder about his assertion that it can't drift. I think the issue might be the wingnut behind the wheel, not the chassis.

[Shinji2787]

I noticed OP mentioned he used to own a ae86, but now currently drives a '01 s2k. I currently own a '85 corolla gt-s and a MY06 S2K and between the two cars I could also make the argument that the corolla "cannot get the rear out"... That is if I'm relying on using only the gas pedal to swing out the rear with extra power. I've noticed over the past 5-6 years of driving both my old sprinter and the s2k that the S2K is considerably easier to do a power slide with (read: power + gas pedal = rear begins to slide mid-turn), but not as easy to get the corolla's rear swinging without proper steering input + speed + braking (whatever combo is required for the upcoming turn/drift). I get the feeling that the BRZ/FRS is similar to the corolla; enter a little hotter, little later breaking, little more gradual weight shift, little more precision steering, foot on gas a little earlier at higher revs. I believe this neat guy name Tsuchiya once mentioned everyone is moving to higher powered cars because they're easier to initiate a drift and maintain it... (insert sarcasm)

While I haven't had the opportunity to test drive a brz/frs (L.A. subie dealers are so anal with their 3-5k markups and not letting people test drive .. and FRS are getting sold as soon as they hit the bloody dealers!!) it seems like the driver's inputs are much more crucial for this car compared to just using the gas pedal to turn...

Though I would like to comment that manual BRZ/FRS will be easier to turn with gas pedal due to shorter gearing ratios, though I am inclined to believe that difference is rather negligible.

[DantKR]

Well, dyno test already showed that the auto gets about 10 less HP and about 5-7 less torque than the manual. I've been able to get the tail out whenever I remember to turn off traction control stuff lol. Also, how is the steering wheel too thick o.0? I have fairly average hands and it's perfectly fine for me and my wife.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Wepeel

As I understand it, the GR Impreza rear suspension, which looks very similar to the BRZ/FRS (and shares components with), will actually toe-IN with articulation (bump and droop). This would actually have the opposite effect of what you're describing.

Anybody have a rear toe-curve for this car yet?

As an AP1 owner, that's my only major criticism of that car's suspension. Big changes in rear toe with bump is and always been a gimmick that doesn't work. It makes the AP1's handling a little weird and non-linear. Drive-aroundable, but not ideal, and of course it's caught countless uninitiated drivers out.

I believe the AP1 would gain something like 1/8" toe per inch of travel (that's HUGE!). I would hope that the FR-S/BRZ rear toe is much more stable/consistent throughout uppie/downie travel.

Using same components vs. other cars doesn't say anything. AP2 used the same suspension components but relocated the toe-arm pivot location on the chassis to minimize toe change with bump.

Again, anybody have a rear toe curve yet?

[Z6]

No need to bash the OP of his remarks, his entitled to his opinion.

OP, when people spend a hard earned 40k on a car they really don't want to see this kind of feedback, its something they wont want to hear or even consider... I dont know what you would have expected from the people on this forum.

For your information, I took the manual for a test drive and had the rear end out without any problems. Of-course I wouldn't do this in an auto.

I watched your video of you driving the S2000, I am not sure if your trying to show off but just to let you know:

Your at constant high revs, your car makes a lot of "sound", if you actually put headphones in you would realize that your car isn't actually performing that well. How do I know this? because I thought the same way... I always use to have my car in low gears/high revs.

For an experienced driver, this car would need several mods out the door to provide the complete sports car experience you can get from other brands.

Your not an experienced driver and your no where close to one - seriously an auto.... I never knew why people actually bagged the crap out of Honda owners, you my friend just explained that to me. Dont get me wrong I love Honda S2000's and its probably the only Honda out that I actually like.

For your information I bought this car as a daily (GTS86 in Australia), I dont expect it to be a supercar for the price or to have Ferrari's engineering, however it has some great features and the sporty feel to it that suits me. Just the same way that you Honda suits you.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by AaronCompNetSys

Wow, I didn't know this forum turned into such haters. Pretty much all of your childish callouts are false, such as the trans was in sport.

I'll just leave now.

Peace out!


P.S. try a manual BRZ next time, you may like it more. The pro drivers do!

[ashtray]

Somehow, I was reminded of the "I drive flat out" video...

I'm also noticing a trend that the "geared for fuel economy" auto trans doesn't have the grunt of the manual. I have no issue moving the rear end around on my manual BRZ, even with the nannies on. It still allows for some wheel slip.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by someguy

I watched your video of you driving the S2000, I am not sure if your trying to show off but just to let you know:

Your at constant high revs, your car makes a lot of "sound", if you actually put headphones in you would realize that your car isn't actually performing that well. How do I know this? because I thought the same way... I always use to have my car in low gears/high revs.

I guess your car wasn't an S2000 (or FR-S/BRZ for that matter).
These cars make peak power very near the rev-limiter. If you aren't revving the bejeezus out of them, you aren't putting as much power down and are giving up speed/time.

This isn't true for some cars. Maybe yours is a MazdaSpeed3?

Don't assume that what works or doesn't work for your car applies to others!

[DantKR]

FR-S BRZ you're going to want to keep around 6k RPM, if you dip below 4k you're going to hit the torque dip and then you really won't be able to spin the tires.