FRS vs Camaro Handling

[ST185RC]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The FRS has very shitty tires. The brake performance gives a good indication of this. With good tires the 1.09g lateral acceleration of Camaro can be surpassed easy. We all know that the stock tires were chosen to give a tail happy nature. Overall, a Camaro will be faster because it has much more power and not because it has better handling.

Here a nice video of how important is to choose good tires:

Contrary to your belief, the stock FRS tires are very good for what they were intended to do; be a summer tire that gets good mileage through low rolling resistance. the fact that people drift the crap out of them without them popping is already proving that they are pretty well capable of doing things you wouldn't normally do in every day driving conditions. Remember, these tires were put on a prius, a car intrinsically designed to get good mileage. These are summer commuter tires, not racing slicks.

They are shitty for the track, but you don't roll snow tires on the track either right? Of course snow tires would be shitty on the track because track duty isn't what its intended purpose was. It's like comparing comfy long-life walking shoes to trainers. Which one do you think will do better in a 100m dash?

If you haven't checked, the primacy HP tires aren't cheap either, it's no secret that toyota and subaru fitted these things on for the shits and giggles of making this car go sideways easily.

Kinda "tired" of people knocking the stock tires for being crappy for the wrong reasons.

[LOLS2K]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I know this is an 86 forum, but I'm still surprised at how many excuses people are making to try and prove the 86 is superior. People are quoting weight numbers for the previous generations or saying that it's not fun to drive when they have probably never been behind the wheel of one.


Why is it so hard for some people on here to believe that Chevy has created an affordable driver's car that is also semi-practical? You might think they are in different classes, but the V6 1LE can be had for close to the same price so it's not crazy to try and compare the two cars.



Also




Is this real life?

This.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by bcj

Ok. Now, when do we get the 1LE hatchback wagon?

That would be called the CTS-V

[ST185RC]

I will say this, the 86 is very communicative and for a RWD it's very user friendly. It makes you FEEL special because you can do things in it with less worry.

The camaro, while heavier, will trounce the 86 in EVERY measurable sense outside of a space bigger than a parking lot marked with cones, stock for stock.

Is the Camaro a better car? Yeah, if you're into numbers.

If you're into how the car communicates to you, then maybe not. 500lbs is a lot of extra weight to try and steer with the rear axle. It may not instill the same sense of confidence when at the limit.

I digress, I test drove a mustang GT and it FELT like it had worse handling. It brake-dives, I didn't feel confident that I can maintain control of the rear if taken a bit higher towards the limit, and steering felt a bit disconnected and I FELT like it handled worse. On paper, the Mustang is lightyears ahead in performance except weight. I suspect that the Camaro will be something similar.

FRS FEELS like it handles better because it will do everything you expect it to do without getting into serious trouble. But the mustang is far more capable beyond most peoples' driving abilities.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by glamcem

1.09g with street tires (better than most but still) is not something you can easily achieve without a sophisticated suspension and/or chassis tuning and some extensive R/D.

If you consider RE71R's and BFG-RS street tires you can get an 86 to do that with minimal effort.

Originally Posted by ST185RC

Remember, these tires were put on a prius, a car intrinsically designed to get good mileage. These are summer commuter tires, not racing slicks.

I hate this meme, those tires were designed for high end luxury cars from Audi, Lexus, and Merc. The lexus connection probably has more to do with it than the Prius which they just chucked on for one trim package in Japan.

But I agree with your point, they're totally underrated and expensive for a reason.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I know this is an 86 forum, but I'm still surprised at how many excuses people are making to try and prove the 86 is superior.

The ND Miata is superior to the 86.

[LOLS2K]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The ND Miata is superior to the 86.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LOLS2K

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Cole

Aren't magnetic dampers (is that the proper term for them? Dampers?) not allowed in like, every top level racing organization?

Perhaps, wouldn't know, but the question is why do they disallow it?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

That would be called the CTS-V

It was a very sad day when Cadillac dropped the CTS-V wagon from its line-up.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Perhaps, wouldn't know, but the question is why do they disallow it?

I did some quick looking up for F1. Doesn't seem as though magnetic dampers are banned, but active dampers (of all types) are banned.

But when it comes to banning things, it's the unfair advantage side of things, since poorer teams can't afford to keep up with innovations that teams like Mclaren, Ferrari, Toyota, etc could make. That doesn't stop the Redbull F1 team from cheating all the time though.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

^^^ A 5 second improvement with only tires is not that outrageous considering how absolutely horrific our stock tires are, and the amount of room for improvement that they leave. Switch to a dedicated racing tire and significant gains are possible.

It did get a 2.7 second improvement on the track with JUST different tires. However, track time is a combination of handling and power, so comparing track times is silly.

The 2016 camaro V6 LT1 has a lateral grip of .89 G's...

A twin with JUST different tires has a lateral grip of .96 G's... Not even close. Add the same size tires and wheels and FI and even track times are laughable.

Jaden

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Jaden

It did get a 2.7 second improvement on the track with JUST different tires. However, track time is a combination of handling and power, so comparing track times is silly.

The 2016 camaro V6 LT1 has a lateral grip of .89 G's...

A twin with JUST different tires has a lateral grip of .96 G's... Not even close. Add the same size tires and wheels and FI and even track times are laughable.

Jaden

The Camaro in question has a lateral grip of 1.1G stock. So....yeah. Don't know where the base model V6 came in to play with its all season tires and steel wheels.... also, I'm thinking you meant a "1lt"


Link for JUST different tire grip of twin? Never seen the lateral G's with JUST tires posted or compared. What tires?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Link for JUST different tire grip of twin? Never seen the lateral G's with JUST tires posted or compared. What tires?

R&T 5 years ago, old Dunlop ZI SS tires on 18x7.5" wheels, not the most optimum combo even back then.
I ran ZIISS in OE size for a year after the stock tires, nice upgrade from OE and MPSS and a solid consistent track performer but nowhere near the sticky stuff available now and 225's are preferred if maxing out your corner speeds are desired on <8" wheels, 245 + 8.5" or 9" gives you enough performance that people are ditching slicks for it.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Cole

But when it comes to banning things, it's the unfair advantage side of things, since poorer teams can't afford to keep up with innovations that teams like Mclaren, Ferrari, Toyota, etc could make.

Well that's racing...put up or shut up, right?

I get that the poorer teams would be at a disadvantage but not sure I care. That's why there are different levels of racing. You run in the one you come closest to being able to win.

I think the better solution would be to limit the dollar amount that can be spent on the car itself, not limiting technology within those limits. Then of course, folks would game that portion as well (look at the Lemon races, etc).

We're way off topic though so I think we can just leave it at that.