C&D: Aaron Robinson Scion Must Die!

[Guff]

Even if they branded it a Lexus and called it the Supra Celica Corolla Sienna GTS-Four TT, it still has Subaru stamped on every body panel and near every component...

It is what it is guys, and IMO it doesn't matter what badge is up front, so long as its the same wonderful piece of engineering underneath!


And my Scion dealers are actually pretty cool, better than those old-timers over at Subaru...

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by FT-86GOD

Potato potato......... He does have a point in regards to Scion but then gets personal saying it should have been a Celica... Maybe it should have, maybe there saving that one for later.. FT86CLUB as a community argued this for a long time, remember those days all the OG's here back then?!!, i do hahaha, people saying "they should call it a Celica", "NO!!! a Sprinter", "+1 for Supra", "what about Corolla dont forget Corolla they were once cool", "lets just call it a fukn FT86 Dikheads!!"... "Ban?".. LOL... The good ol' days and even we couldnt agree.... It is what it is now...FRS..

And for the aussie its the GT86 or GTS86

I miss those days

[Genomaxter]

Are people forgetting the 1990-1999 Celica Alltrac? Rally much? Seriously, the Celica has more heritage in sports than any other car Toyota has ever built.

[stalon320]

I understand the whole ae86 stuff that Toyota wants to sell.. but the reality is. from the styling, the proportions and yes even the placement of the engine all spells out 2000GT. This car is more a spiritual successor than ANY other Toyota product. As to Subaru's name all over it? Well I have no problem with that because they did much of the engineering work while Toyota did most of the styling.. It is what it is.. and its a GREAT CAR.. in Ten years lets see what happens with regards to Scion.. Like I said in my earlier post.. I really like the company, logo, and how they are sold.. just need more kick ass products!!

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by FT-86GOD

Potato potato......... He does have a point in regards to Scion but then gets personal saying it should have been a Celica... Maybe it should have, maybe there saving that one for later.. FT86CLUB as a community argued this for a long time, remember those days all the OG's here back then?!!, i do hahaha, people saying "they should call it a Celica", "NO!!! a Sprinter", "+1 for Supra", "what about Corolla dont forget Corolla they were once cool", "lets just call it a fukn FT86 Dikheads!!"... "Ban?".. LOL... The good ol' days and even we couldnt agree.... It is what it is now...FRS..

And for the aussie its the GT86 or GTS86

you just made me relive some funny memories on here

[mike2100]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

you just made me relive some funny memories on here

I was thinking the same thing. I believe I voted for Toyota Sprinter.

The Scion brand name carries a stigma for me... as a silly brand, not serious. When I get behind the wheel though I forget that completely.
I'm hoping FR-S will strengthen the Scion name... perhaps its heritage is starting now and we are living the history.
I don't know though - there is a lot of hate because it's "basically a re-badged Subaru."

[Bristecom]

I agree that making it a Scion was a disservice. This is a special car that Toyota needed, even in the states. Scion is like Toyota's special ed child. They are retarded when it comes to options, they don't do numbers, and they try to appeal to the simple-minded party people, wanna be gangsters, and ricers. That's not exactly something to be proud of if you're a true car enthusiast.

I do not think that it should have been called a Celica however. Celicas came in several different variants, all had Toyota inline-4 engines, and since 1985, were either FWD or AWD. This car is something very different.

But with that said, I don't mind the styling of the Scion logo and I actually really like the FR-S name. Never the less, I am just glad they are offering it in the US in an un-molested way.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by mike2100

I don't know though - there is a lot of hate because it's "basically a re-badged Subaru."

Then maybe they should have called it the "Toyota Subaru BRZ" so that everyone knows.

Speaking of which, to those who still consider this a Subaru, consider this: Even though it was ultimately engineered and assembled by Subaru, the entire rear wheel drive dynamics of the car come from Toyota. The transmission, LSD, and traction/stability control logistics are all Toyota based. Not to mention, the interior and exterior design was done by Toyota. This car has very apparent Toyota characteristics so I think it's pretty ignorant to be calling it a rebadged Subaru, even though Subaru made it a point to stick their logos everywhere.

[Quentin]

If Toyota put their sports car along side the Sienna, Avalon, and Camry instead of their youth brand, they may as well have closed the doors on the Scion brand all together. You turn Scion from a "loser" brand to a good brand by giving it good products. I think the FR-S is step one of making Scion a real enthusiast's brand. We could see a real hot hatch based on the next Corolla and maybe a sport sedan after that. Scion gives you the necessities without the fluff. You'd think that enthusiasts would love that.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Quentin

If Toyota put their sports car along side the Sienna, Avalon, and Camry instead of their youth brand, they may as well have closed the doors on the Scion brand all together. You turn Scion from a "loser" brand to a good brand by giving it good products. I think the FR-S is step one of making Scion a real enthusiast's brand. We could see a real hot hatch based on the next Corolla and maybe a sport sedan after that. Scion gives you the necessities without the fluff. You'd think that enthusiasts would love that.

If they made me "Scion King for a Day" that is exactly what I would do. Scion becomes the enthusiast brand, Lexus stays the luxury brand, and Toyota remains the brand in-between. They could even market it as

"SCION = Sports Cars In Our Network"

[davesrave]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

If it was called a Celica, I would have visited the Subaru dealership instead. I've never revered the Celica. It's a FWD high school girls car IMHO and only a handful are AWD. It really doesn't share any heritage with the 86.

The Celica was only a FR layout from 1970-1985... Everything after, was designed for the cheer squad. Also none of them were real "sporty" or had the heritage of such until the stuck the AWD in them did Rally.

So yeah, the article was good right up until THAT. Why call it a Celica if branding it as a Toyota? Why not just a Toyota 86? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

This IS the replacement to the 2000-2005 Celica GT-S, IMO. I drove the 2000 GT-S for 5 years and loved it because it balanced the equation of performance, handling, affordability, practicality, reliability and economy better than any other car option out there save maybe an Acura RSX-Type X (and I wouldn’t know for sure, since I never owned one). I've owned a lot of cars, but fell in love with few. Maybe because something like 90% of this model Celica built were GTs, people don’t realize what the GT-S versions were. They were 100 HP/Liter 1.8, weighed 2500 and change, and had great brakes, suspension, 6 speed manual transmission, and leather. Very easy to drive fast and tons of fun if you didn’t mind revving the engine to its 8400 rpm rev limit. Since I bought the car cheap because it was a used 7 year old, I drove it like almost every mile might be its last. Missed a few shifts, once accidently down shifted to second instead of fourth, and drove it sheepishly for the next 10 miles only to find nothing went wrong. Cheap to insure, always got 30 MPG, never burned a drop of oil through 141 thousand miles (60K mine), never had an issue save some charcoal filter thing that cost $70 because Toyota manufactured a unique replacement part saving hundreds over replacing the entire part.
All I ever told anyone who asked was I wished it was RWD and/or Limited slip. In the wet it was way too easy to spin the one tire with grip and bang the rev limiter. Believe it or not, no nannys other than ABS brakes, and I never felt it needed anything more.
The original window sticker was in the glove box when I purchased it. 13 years ago, that car stickered for north of $24K. Yeah, if this car is what I hope what it is (see above) then it is the true Celica successor.
Unfortunately, Scion is not the value play here. I say buy the Subaru BRZ premium or limited for much less than the inflation adjusted price of the Celica and enjoy the toys like navigation and HIDs, which Subaru throws in for next to nothing, while getting the car Toyota wanted desperately to build. Or buy the Scion. In the end, nobody looses, really.

[ichitaka05]

Oh boy here comes "what this car's name should have been" debate.

I've put enough amount of time & debate of this one... this time around, I'll just enjoy reading other member debate instead

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

If they made me "Scion King for a Day" that is exactly what I would do. Scion becomes the enthusiast brand, Lexus stays the luxury brand, and Toyota remains the brand in-between. They could even market it as

"SCION = Sports Cars In Our Network"

They've already said that the xD and xB probably aren't getting replacements. The tC is a decent sports coupe. The FR-S is a great sports car. A hot hatch and lengthened FR-S sedan would make Scion the real deal as far as being a brand for the enthusiast. I'm OK with my family cars being Toyotas (4Runner & Prius v) and my sports car being a Scion.

[RWD_only]

Because the rain is getting to me and I don't bother feeling like typing out a meaningful, worthwhile response: obvious badge-whore is obvious.