Should Toyota's version of the FT-86 be badged a Toyota or Scion in North America?

[70NYD]

Does anyone notice how all these rumors keep getting blow up?
1st rumor it will be pushed back... False
2nd rumor they will be different cars between Toyota and subaru.. False
3rd rumor the Subaru will be AWD (and so many ppl got on this band wagon)... False
4th rumor Subaru will have a different (bigger) engine... false (perhaps in the top Lvl trim they will differ but base=same)
5th rumor it's gonna be a scion... What the fuck do you think?
See the trend here? Only actual stuff released by Toyota and Subaru proved viable.. All other crap from the net was just that, crap..
And these are just of the top of my head

[Aki]

There was also the other rumor that Toyota totally scrapped the design of the FT-86 concept and was going to go with something different, possibly more Italian in style... yeah lots of rumors.

[ryun84]

There were also rumors that they might change the car to a hybrid like the CR-Z. I hope this was just a rumor and false from the get-go, because if Toyota was ever thinking about it... shame on them.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by ryun84

There were also rumors that they might change the car to a hybrid like the CR-Z. I hope this was just a rumor and false from the get-go, because if Toyota was ever thinking about it... shame on them.

I think, you were talking about Subie ver rumor...

[ryun84]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I think, you were talking about Subie ver rumor...

Was it? I can't remember. There were so many rumors flying around for so long (and still are), it's so hard to keep track. Hopefully things get set straight... soon...

[Toyota4Life]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

Toyota because I'm one of those crazy people who still thinks it should be called a Celica...but that's a whole different poll

That's not crazy at all. It should be called Celica. This is exactly the type of car the Celica is. The Celica name has heritage, strong brand-recognition, and is just a great name overall. The FT-86 absolutely should be the 8th Gen Celica. There are a few posts saying the Celica name is somehow "ruined" because the last 4 generations were FF. I don't see it that way. The FF Celicas were still good looking, fun cars, and 2011 is the Celica's 40th anniversary. What better way to celebrate by reviving the name?

Just one Scion badge even touching this car will doom it. I am a potential buyer for this car, and like many of you, I WILL NOT buy it if it has Scion badges. I just won't. I'm one of the biggest Toyota nuts out there. I almost every car they've built, except for the Scion brand. And I know I'm far from alone looking at the poll results for this thread and various postings all over the net bemoaning this car as a Scion. Aside from emotional issues, there are many technical reasons to NOT brand it a Scion. There is still a good % of Toyota dealers who do NOT sell Scion - this in effect limits the potential markets this car can be sold in if it's a Scion.

The Toyota division desperately needs a halo model sports car, and this car is perfect for it. This car's success will definitely improve the prospects of a revived MR2 and Supra, IMHO, and I don't want to see those at Scion with some shitty alpha-numeric name. FT-S? It sounds like it should be at a Cadillac dealer.

[Aki]

I'm not a Scion fan by any stretch of imagination, but I think its vilification is somewhat unjustified.

Originally Posted by Dimman

Some sales figures from 2010: Only Jan and Feb numbers (6,062 in 2 months extrapolate that to est. 36,372 for the year).

Total Scion sales for 2010 was 29,672... pretty terrible.

The year-to-date sales for 2011 (Jan + Feb) for Scion this year is 7219, or 43,314 for the year at this rate... not exactly stellar, but an improvement from last year.

Thing is, I don't think Scion sales suck simply because "Scion sucks." I think there are a lot of factors. The big one is that if Scion is supposed to appeal to the youth market, then they should know that that market moves on quickly, and that they need to keep up to make their line-up fresh. They didn't do that, and the Scion TC went on for years and years.

The xB failed because it outgrew its own niche. Then you have a somewhat similar xD. A brand that's supposed to be edgy, hip wasn't anymore. Plus you had the Toyota accelerator drama, the economic downturn, lapse in product window for the xB.

Hate the brand all you want, but I think it's too early to pull the plug on Scion. I do think that the chances of the FT86 selling better is higher though with Toyota, since Scion's kinda in disarray at the moment. Branding-wise, it seems destined for Scion though.

[Dimman]

From a peak of over 170,000. Remember that.

Scion needs the axe. Its nifty marketing worked, very briefly and now it is its own liability. What are they going to do? Come out with a new 'edgy' brand every 5 years?

Take the funding away from these retarded campaigns. Give it to engineers to make good, innovative vehicles. Then tell these marketing twits to find a market for these superior products.

You don't invent a market to sell a mediocre product (these are repackaged Corollas and Echo/Yaris (Yari, Yarises?) in a fancy package to. Especially when these markets are super fluid, and sensitive to being market TO.

Product, product, product. If you build it they will come.

[Toyota4Life]

Scion has the new tC and also the iQ coming out later this year which should help increase sales. They do not need the FT86, nor should they get it. An article over at ToyotaNation from the Chief Engineer of the project said specifically it was coming to the US as a Toyota and made mention that they thought about bringing it as a Scion, but decided against it.

The people clamoring for it to be a Scion are the US executives who have a vested interest in Scion's success, since IIRC it was their grand plan to introduce the plan in the first place. The fact that rumors of this car going to Scion has caused a lot of problems for buyers should be reason enough for them to not give it to Scion. Come on Toyota, do the right thing: Toyota Celica.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Toyota4Life

That's not crazy at all. It should be called Celica. This is exactly the type of car the Celica is. The Celica name has heritage, strong brand-recognition, and is just a great name overall. The FT-86 absolutely should be the 8th Gen Celica. There are a few posts saying the Celica name is somehow "ruined" because the last 4 generations were FF. I don't see it that way. The FF Celicas were still good looking, fun cars, and 2011 is the Celica's 40th anniversary. What better way to celebrate by reviving the name?

Just one Scion badge even touching this car will doom it. I am a potential buyer for this car, and like many of you, I WILL NOT buy it if it has Scion badges. I just won't. I'm one of the biggest Toyota nuts out there. I almost every car they've built, except for the Scion brand. And I know I'm far from alone looking at the poll results for this thread and various postings all over the net bemoaning this car as a Scion. Aside from emotional issues, there are many technical reasons to NOT brand it a Scion. There is still a good % of Toyota dealers who do NOT sell Scion - this in effect limits the potential markets this car can be sold in if it's a Scion.

The Toyota division desperately needs a halo model sports car, and this car is perfect for it. This car's success will definitely improve the prospects of a revived MR2 and Supra, IMHO, and I don't want to see those at Scion with some shitty alpha-numeric name. FT-S? It sounds like it should be at a Cadillac dealer.

[zigzagz94]

@Toyota4life

Welcome to the small but vocal minority that is proudly carrying the Celica banner and lobbying for it to be applied to the production FT-86 :happy0180:

[Aki]

Originally Posted by Toyota4Life

The people clamoring for it to be a Scion are the US executives who have a vested interest in Scion's success, since IIRC it was their grand plan to introduce the plan in the first place. The fact that rumors of this car going to Scion has caused a lot of problems for buyers should be reason enough for them to not give it to Scion. Come on Toyota, do the right thing: Toyota Celica.

If you're citing terrible Scion sales as reason to not make the FT86 a Scion, then it makes just as little sense as to release it as a Celica.

Celica sales were terrible towards the end, which is why it died to begin with. In 2004 it sold only 8,214 of them, in its fourth model-year cycle (which is at the end of the generation, but not really that old). From 52,406 units sold in 2000, that's a huge drop that spells the death of the brand.

Hence Celica just isn't a strong name plate. Take the Supra--although it also died due to lackluster sales, it's had a dedicated following and a great reputation, which is why they're so expensive used. So in spite of the brand dying due to sales, the Supra name still has appeal. Unless you're a diehard Toyota fan, there isn't much branding appeal to a Celica.

I do agree with your point though that it'll do better as a Toyota, simply because you have a bigger dealer network to distribute/market the car.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Aki

If you're citing terrible Scion sales as reason to not make the FT86 a Scion, then it makes just as little sense as to release it as a Celica.

Celica sales were terrible towards the end, which is why it died to begin with. In 2004 it sold only 8,214 of them, in its fourth model-year cycle (which is at the end of the generation, but not really that old). From 52,406 units sold in 2000, that's a huge drop that spells the death of the brand.

Hence Celica just isn't a strong name plate. Take the Supra--although it also died due to lackluster sales, it's had a dedicated following and a great reputation, which is why they're so expensive used. So in spite of the brand dying due to sales, the Supra name still has appeal. Unless you're a diehard Toyota fan, there isn't much branding appeal to a Celica.

I do agree with your point though that it'll do better as a Toyota, simply because you have a bigger dealer network to distribute/market the car.

Your premise is that it didn't sell because of the nameplate. You are wrong.

It didn't "do well" because the last celica;

a) Had polarizing styling
b) Polarizing performance
c) Lacked an all trac version

It is a strong nameplate, far stronger than anything scion could muster.

p.s. Did it really move 52k units in 2000? If regardless of anything else, it actually did that in it's first year of sale, that would go to show how damn good of a name plate it in fact is. Sounds sketchy though, not even the miata MX-5 moved those kind of numbers since it's first gen.

[Dimman]

I think part of the last gen Celica's issues stem from the Project Genesis, pre-Scion development. It was, in a sense, the first tC. A tC before they cost cut the powertrain (best part of the car) and replaced it with one from a Camry.

And stuff like offering the 2ZZGE with a 4 speed automatic makes me think that some crack-smoking was involved as well... Or someone was deliberately trying to make it fail in order to justify the move to the Camry motor.