Ohlins Road & Track for FRS/BRZ suspension install/review thread

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think that the mi20 kit with the 60N/mm rate was based on feedback from the Japan office. There wasn't a development at the Nurburgring.

I have a friend who knows the MD for ohlins. He drove over to the Nurburgring in his gt86 to get an early set fitted at the ohlins dev centre at the ring. He did some laps with the dev engineers too. Definitely at least partly developed at the ring.

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by Sleepypistonracing

This is correct! I remember them saying that testing the Japanese spring rates here was pure drifting.

I will let you guys know about the valving after I speak to them again!


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Isn't the jap spec front baised like 9kg front and 7kg rear? This would understeer more so than 60N all round.

[Sleepypistonracing]

Originally Posted by ajc209

Isn't the jap spec front baised like 9kg front and 7kg rear? This would understeer more so than 60N all round.

Not sure actually. This is just what they told me😂


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[ajc209]

The chap was Chris Witter who is Ohlins general manager of the test and distribution centre at the ring.

I think someone is telling you porkies. Ohlins japan are 9kg front and 7kg rear as confirmed here:
http://ohlins.czj.jp/auto/Item/BTO-ZN6_DFV_HAL.html

That setup will definitely not be as tail happy as the MI20. If you look at other japanese coilovers like the HKS you will see they are also harder at the front. HKS being 6kg front and 4kg rear.

[churchx]

ajc209: is that really R&T kit? BTO (build to order) logo makes me doubt that a bit. Also height adjustment range of -30/25mm to +5, even higher then stock & differing from EU/US ohlins R&Ts ranges, makes me doubt that those are same OR&T coilovers (MP20 or MI20 kits) but just for different DM. If custom, then probably anyone can order with whatever valving/spring rates, one wishes.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by churchx

If custom, then probably anyone can order with whatever valving/spring rates, one wishes.

I don't know if you can order a kit directly customized, but you can certainly send your own in and it appears they will revalve to your specs.

https://www.ohlinsusa.com/ohlins-usa-service

Pricing wasn't obvious, but Bilstein will charge about $600 for the service so I wouldn't expect any cheaper from Ohlins but not grossly more expensive either. Toss in the springs you want which are ~$60-$70 each and you're quickly heading towards a $1k upcharge which could bump you up a price bracket into something more geared towards your application.

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by churchx

ajc209: is that really R&T kit? BTO (build to order) logo makes me doubt that a bit. Also height adjustment range of -30/25mm to +5, even higher then stock & differing from EU/US ohlins R&Ts ranges, makes me doubt that those are same OR&T coilovers (MP20 or MI20 kits) but just for different DM. If custom, then probably anyone can order with whatever valving/spring rates, one wishes.

Its the Japanese version with 9kg front and 8kg rear rates. Of course you can custom valve and spring them just like the MI20 and MP20 kits.

Lets not move away from my point that the Jap spec are likely to be less tail happy.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by ajc209

Lets not move away from my point that the Jap spec are likely to be less tail happy.

We are missing the most important fact. What tires are they using? In Japan it is very common to tune the cars with very big tires (235/245). Do you know what spring rates has the Bilstein CUP suspension? 14kg and 16 kg front and rear. Someone might say that such rates are non-sense , but the cars are doing great on the track (GT86 Nurburgring Cup). The difference is that they are using big slick tires!

I believe that Ohlins was testing the car on the Swedish track with stock width tires (205/215). Thats why they said that the car was drifting with the higher spring rates. Maybe they tested it with better compounds, but not with bigger tires. Under this assumption, I think that they end up with reasonable spring rates.

[Sleepypistonracing]

Stock width here is 215 and they are saying it was done on normal tires yea. They are also saying if you go up to R compound tires (at least in the Porsche world) they increase the rates by 1kg. They are still very far from what the cup cars are running.


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[ajc209]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

We are missing the most important fact. What tires are they using? In Japan it is very common to tune the cars with very big tires (235/245). Do you know what spring rates has the Bilstein CUP suspension? 14kg and 16 kg front and rear. Someone might say that such rates are non-sense , but the cars are doing great on the track (GT86 Nurburgring Cup). The difference is that they are using big slick tires!

I believe that Ohlins was testing the car on the Swedish track with stock width tires (205/215). Thats why they said that the car was drifting with the higher spring rates. Maybe they tested it with better compounds, but not with bigger tires. Under this assumption, I think that they end up with reasonable spring rates.

Im not arguing the rates. I know the TMG car very well and some of the engineers.... my point is the jap spec is very front biased with stiff rates at the front and less so at the back.

MP20 is 60N all round which will make for a more tail happy setup but still understeers too much for some people on here.

MP20 with 40N up from the 30N at the back. Thats softer than stock at the back on a shorter stroke damper! Stock is 21N front and 36N rear! I have trouble believing the mp20 is not far more pushy/understeer prone than stock. Adding plenty of camber up front will help but I am yet to be convinced.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by ajc209

Im not arguing the rates. I know the TMG car very well and some of the engineers.... my point is the jap spec is very front biased with stiff rates at the front and less so at the back.

MP20 is 60N all round which will make for a more tail happy setup but still understeers too much for some people on here.

MP20 with 40N up from the 30N at the back. Thats softer than stock at the back on a shorter stroke damper! Stock is 21N front and 36N rear! I have trouble believing the mp20 is not far more pushy/understeer prone than stock. Adding plenty of camber up front will help but I am yet to be convinced.

To make things a little more confusing for you, the Ohlins with the 3 kg/mm spring in the rear very likely corner on the bumpstops. That soft of a spring on a shorter stroke damper...at that point the bumpstop is part of the equation as well.

I much prefer the old 6k/mm Ohlins. Even with those springs they could have used a little more travel. We ran them with firmer front and rear springs and they were great.

- andrew

[nikitopo]

Ironically the new stock rear springs have the same stifness of 3kg. The stroke damper is shorter in Ohlins suspension, but there is a considerable spring preload to compensate the difference. Overall, I don't think they made any mistake. Maybe they focused too much on the stock tires and dimensions, but this cannot be count as an error.

[ajc209]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Ironically the new stock rear springs have the same stifness of 3kg. The stroke damper is shorter in Ohlins suspension, but there is a considerable spring preload to compensate the difference. Overall, I don't think they made any mistake. Maybe they focused too much on the stock tires and dimensions, but this cannot be count as an error.

My only issue is the spring rates balance. Why not 40N at the back at 30N at the front?

Or 40N all round?

Also spring preload does nothing for the spring rates. The mp20 kit has about 15mm bump on 30N springs. Stock is has more bump and a stiffer spring. So you'll be hitting the bump stops a lot at the back - this is bad enough with the MI20 kit imo.

[teppei]

Originally Posted by ajc209

My only issue is the spring rates balance. Why not 40N at the back at 30N at the front?

Or 40N all round?

Also spring preload does nothing for the spring rates. The mp20 kit has about 15mm bump on 30N springs. Stock is has more bump and a stiffer spring. So you'll be hitting the bump stops a lot at the back - this is bad enough with the MI20 kit imo.

3kg at the rear compare to other coilovers spring rate really sounds ridiculous. But 3kg rate doesn't mean it easily hit the bumpstop. And yes, preload doesn't affect the stiffest or handling of the car. But it could limit the stroke travel of spring. Lots of people think either preload is just keeping the spring sit under the spring seats, or making the shock stiffer. In theory that's not the case. Meaning the spring is fully compressed before it hits bumpstop in damper. Which protects the damper.

in my opinion 4/3kg combo really sounds too soft. But if you have ridden on this setup, you'd be surprised it feels like some of proper coilovers with 6kg all around. Cannot always judge on the spring rate only. Ohlins is damper manufacture, not spring. They know what they're doing. And Ohlins is commonly known being conservative in spring rate. And apparently the setup is for general use, especially for stock wheels/tyres combination. Ohlins is a true performance supsension manufacture. They don't do things for look, or show. When someone complains lack of travel and his car is having 3 inch drop is just a joke. Modification varies from car to car. It's impossible to make something fit all applications. When the car have more power, grippier tyres, wider track width. Spring rate increase is part of upgrading, just like any other mods. It must work as a package.