SCCA Solo D Street discussion

[dvalue]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It sounds like you're not actually turning off traction control, hold the left button 'off' for ~5s, two yellow lights will illuminate and that's it, don't press anything else.

It sounds like you're pressing the 'off' button which is meant for snow/dirt only and turns off over 30 mph and/or pressing sport mode which will either cancel the 5s press (if you're doing that first) or it's sport mode + single press 'off' depending on your procedure.

Don't press 'sport mode' (unless you've got an automatic, in which case read your manual, it'll be different than what I wrote).

I personally prefer pedal dance, but there are many who don't, it's worth experimenting with, but I wouldn't do it during an event, I blew many runs trying to adapt during competition and didn't really understand it until I had a free test and tune day and an open figure 8 skidpad.

I was originally told to press sport button first, just once, and then hold traction control until the two lights came on.

I've done quite a few runs in pedal dance. I'm just very inconsistent being able to get it activated. I do feel like it drives differently, but not better or worse. Seems like the rear rotates differently with it off, imo.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by dvalue

I was originally told to press sport button first, just once, and then hold traction control until the two lights came on.

I've done quite a few runs in pedal dance. I'm just very inconsistent being able to get it activated. I do feel like it drives differently, but not better or worse. Seems like the rear rotates differently with it off, imo.

You don't need to do what that random person told you. All you need to do is hold the TRAC OFF button for THREE (3) seconds until both yellow lights illuminate on your dash. You can also do this from any other mode, and while driving at any speed. 3 seconds holding that button down, and the aids are off.

As far as it intervening, the stability light will still flash on your dash, but unlike when the car is in other modes, I've never actually had the car reel me in or do anything to stop whatever I was in the middle of. FWIW, in my two years of autocrossing (one year stock, and one year in STX with RE71Rs), I've never had it step in on me, and so have never needed to resort to The Pedal Dance. YMMV...

[dvalue]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

As far as it intervening, the stability light will still flash on your dash, but unlike when the car is in other modes, I've never actually had the car reel me in or do anything to stop whatever I was in the middle of. FWIW, in my two years of autocrossing (one year stock, and one year in STX with RE71Rs), I've never had it step in on me, and so have never needed to resort to The Pedal Dance. YMMV...

To be fair, I haven't felt any intervention from it, either. I just notice it come on now and again and thought it might be limiting the car in some form, even if just for a split second.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by dvalue

To be fair, I haven't felt any intervention from it, either. I just notice it come on now and again and thought it might be limiting the car in some form, even if just for a split second.

From what I've gathered, that's exactly what happens. People see the light blinking and freak out thinking the car is "ruining my fun." In reality, if you put tape over the light, I don't think you'd be able to tell when it was or wasn't blinking. I'd suggest maybe trying that to make sure it isn't a "placebo effect."

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by dvalue

I was originally told to press sport button first, just once, and then hold traction control until the two lights came on.

I've done quite a few runs in pedal dance. I'm just very inconsistent being able to get it activated. I do feel like it drives differently, but not better or worse. Seems like the rear rotates differently with it off, imo.

As long as the green light is off and you're looking at just the two yellow ones then yes I believe you are disabling TC correctly. Apologies for misunderstanding, but hitting sport mode first is unnecessary.

Pedal dance in my experience is all about trail braking, with the pedal dance activated I can turn in later and overlap brake & turn in because the car is allowing weight to transfer to the front wheels for better grip and rotation.

After the light clicked on, so to speak, I'm not going back.

[Twinz]

I think the "intervention" you get when using the press-and-hold method is limited to diff assist. The diff can "go open" under certain conditions and the system applies some braking force to the inside wheel to get the diff to work.

Our diffs will act like an open diff if one of the tires is lifted or "unloads" enough. With the pedal dance it goes open until the unloaded tire has enough resistance. The press-and-hold method allows the system to jump in and "fix" the problem when it happens.

Having experienced both situations, (my Z's Quaife diff went open sometimes and had no electronics to bail it out) I don't think the diff-assist works all that well for performance driving, but a helical diff is usless when it goes open anyway.

The few times the diff assist has done its thing, I *think I would have been a little better off if it had just gone open and recoverd without any intervention, but it's so rare I don't think it's worth the pedal dance and loss of EBD.

[Locust]

Thought I read somewhere that pedal dance can trigger ice mode in some situations where it shouldn't be.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Locust

Thought I read somewhere that pedal dance can trigger ice mode in some situations where it shouldn't be.

It 100% does, you can't stab the brakes aggressively, it will go into ice mode in my experience. I've done it quite a few times. You can get away with it (aggressive sudden braking) in standard TC off mode, but you shouldn't be braking like that to begin with imho, and it's totally not necessary with pedal dance activated.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Locust

Thought I read somewhere that pedal dance can trigger ice mode in some situations where it shouldn't be.

Oh yes... I couldn't figure it out, but didn't try after I got the car balanced, I was trying to figure other things out. Ice mode only happened if I started to initiate turn-in while on the brakes, but the turns it was problematic WERE corners with a fairly aggressive braking zone - running without ABS suggests I was simply lifting a tire. Took out a couple cone walls on pedal dance and gave up for the day.

It's back on the agenda for this year. I'm confident you can drive around it, but it may not be for you, today.

I'll add, someone that usually drove CS ran my car at the end of the year (and demonstrated just how much I need to sort out as a driver...) and didn't feel it was an issue without pedal dance, but would never run the CS car without.

C

[Briankbot]

Originally Posted by Twinz

I think the "intervention" you get when using the press-and-hold method is limited to diff assist. The diff can "go open" under certain conditions and the system applies some braking force to the inside wheel to get the diff to work.

Our diffs will act like an open diff if one of the tires is lifted or "unloads" enough. With the pedal dance it goes open until the unloaded tire has enough resistance. The press-and-hold method allows the system to jump in and "fix" the problem when it happens.

Having experienced both situations, (my Z's Quaife diff went open sometimes and had no electronics to bail it out) I don't think the diff-assist works all that well for performance driving, but a helical diff is usless when it goes open anyway.

The few times the diff assist has done its thing, I *think I would have been a little better off if it had just gone open and recoverd without any intervention, but it's so rare I don't think it's worth the pedal dance and loss of EBD.

^^^This. I just didnt want to type it myself haha

In the past I used the pedal dance because I could feel the diff assist kicking in and I was convinced it slowed me down. If you want to experience it find a set of switch backs going up a hill/mountain, engage the button hold method and you will encounter it pretty quickly. With the softer suspension having moved into DS the likely hood of having issues with the diff assist on an autocross course is almost non existent. IIRC The downfall of the pedal dance is that the ABS switches to single channel which is a big loss in my opinion. If your car can't trail brake with the button hold method it's the driver or suspension setup, not the brakes. My car trail brakes just fine.

[Locust]

Looks like the Dixie tour in DS is three WRX and 7 twins. There's one pair of holdouts in CS in an FR-S. We'll see after next weekend how the twins fare against the WRX I guess. Although it seems like it's going to be a very course dependent class now.

[solort]

Originally Posted by Locust

Looks like the Dixie tour in DS is three WRX and 7 twins. There's one pair of holdouts in CS in an FR-S. We'll see after next weekend how the twins fare against the WRX I guess. Although it seems like it's going to be a very course dependent class now.

One WRX there won DS at Nats last year, so it will be a benchmark for sure. Courses are usually very fast and transitional with one big sweeper at the end. My co driver bailed, so I will be going it alone. I came in 3rd of 27 last year. Hope to be in the ballpark this year. Sent in some Konis to get degassed and revalved, but will not get them back in time for Dixie. Will have a full set of Koni Yellows (inserts with strut housings) for sale soon...

[Open Loop]

Hi everyone. I am building my 2013 FR-S for D-Street, and I am looking for thoughts regarding alignment settings. I have a good local race shop that takes the time to do a good job with alignments, and I want to take the time to set up the car as well as possible before the season starts.


I drive the car regularly, but I have two daily drivers at the moment (other car is a supercharged 99 Miata) so some additional tire wear to benefit the autocross setup is OK. I generally drive in the summer on my "race" tires and expect to get about 5,000 miles out of a set of tires including 10 autocross events per year. If that goes to 4,000 miles that would be OK.


Current setup different from stock is on 235/45/17 RE71Rs on RPF-1s, Strano front bar, Konis. I will add the OE crash bolts to the struts before the alignment is done.


I can't provide you with a good description of how I like a car to feel re oversteer/understeer - I don't have enough experience. I don't race it on a track, so it's autocross specific.


I understand that I will want to ask the mechanic to get me as much front camber as possible, with it being even on both sides, and that camber is not adjustable in the rear.


Is caster adjustable in these cars front or rear, and if so, what are recommended settings?


What is the current thinking on toe front & rear for these cars?


Last, I assume that when the alignment is done, the mechanic doing the alignment will loosen the two bottom strut bolts and push in on the bottom of the strut/top of the hub bearing assembly to get as much camber as possible. Does it make sense for me to tell the mechanic that the top crash bolt is narrower than stock to permit further adjustment in this regard?


Thank you for your thoughts!!

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Open Loop

Hi everyone. I am building my 2013 FR-S for D-Street, and I am looking for thoughts regarding alignment settings. I have a good local race shop that takes the time to do a good job with alignments, and I want to take the time to set up the car as well as possible before the season starts.


I drive the car regularly, but I have two daily drivers at the moment (other car is a supercharged 99 Miata) so some additional tire wear to benefit the autocross setup is OK. I generally drive in the summer on my "race" tires and expect to get about 5,000 miles out of a set of tires including 10 autocross events per year. If that goes to 4,000 miles that would be OK.


Current setup different from stock is on 235/45/17 RE71Rs on RPF-1s, Strano front bar, Konis. I will add the OE crash bolts to the struts before the alignment is done.


I can't provide you with a good description of how I like a car to feel re oversteer/understeer - I don't have enough experience. I don't race it on a track, so it's autocross specific.


I understand that I will want to ask the mechanic to get me as much front camber as possible, with it being even on both sides, and that camber is not adjustable in the rear.


Is caster adjustable in these cars front or rear, and if so, what are recommended settings?


What is the current thinking on toe front & rear for these cars?


Last, I assume that when the alignment is done, the mechanic doing the alignment will loosen the two bottom strut bolts and push in on the bottom of the strut/top of the hub bearing assembly to get as much camber as possible. Does it make sense for me to tell the mechanic that the top crash bolt is narrower than stock to permit further adjustment in this regard?


Thank you for your thoughts!!

Recommend you do front camber yourself. Some places will show front camber as non-adjustable, and then tell you "I got the most I could" without touching it. You want the crash bolt in the top bolt, loosen both of them, gently jack up a little bit at the brake rotor and then torque the two nuts (not the bolts!) to spec (119 ft lbs IIRC).

Caster is non adjustable. Rear camber is non adjustable.

Toe I recommend 0 up front and 1/16" toe in for the rear.