200hp / 2700lbs - Really?

[Aki]

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

"I guess you could say the Lancer,
*puts on glasses*
is no longer evolving."
YEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

Omg that's terrible... but I laughed aloud, haha.

[Abflug]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

350-400whp Street car = good DD for me.(FD Or D1).

This is way too much for DD! My opinion!

[yarik83]

I can tell you my story. Between 2000 and 2007 I drove 97 horse power and 135 horse power toyota celicas. In 2007 I have swapped in a 3rd gen 3sgte into my last celica, engine management system etc etc and it was dynotuned to 260 to the wheels. Difference between that and standard models was night and day. Now I drive a truck and it takes a century to accelerate to normal driving speed from dead stop. Not to say that I push my truck but having been hooked on turbo powered bundle of fun for 3 years it is very painful to drive anything this slow. Which brings me to the next point.

All this talk about how much power ft-86 should have or should not have... When it boils down to it... sporty looking cars are not fun to drive. Yes they are cute and you can step on the gas every once in a while but that is all there is to it. Modifying such cars is often costly and result is statistically more expensive per horse power gained than purchasing a sports car right of the bat. On the other hand for all those who want to have fuel economy.. they are barking up a wrong tree if you ask me. You should not be driving a sport(y) vehicle if you want to save on gas. You need to be driving something like a prius. Small, slow and looking like someone ran out of creativity when building it.

I still have some doubts about ft-86 but if I had to make a suggestion to toyota I think they should offer this car with a slowpoke engine for $20,000 and have that engine either easily and cheaply upgradable or at the very least offer a sports package for additional lets say 5 grand that would allow SIGNIFICANT boost to power gain.

On a side note there is inherent problem with sport cars. They are very expensive to drive and I can testify to that first hand. Driving my engine swapped celica pushing 15/19mpg eating 93 octane was hurting my pocket but not as much... have I been driving something like a mitsubishi evo 10. Insurance+bank loan+gas make it a $1000/mo car. My co-worker was driving his STI spending that much. I have been peddling around idea of getting an evo and even by my very cautious guesstimations I would be paying probably at least 700 per month even though I am over 25, have perfect driving record etc etc.

And this brings me to the last point. Reason why evo is being put on hold is because it costs an arm and a leg and all ex-boy racers who are now out of college do not make enough money to be able to spend that much money on a car unless they still live with their parents and their college has been paid for through scholarship/parents. Some exceptions considered of course.

In any case 2012 is still a very long time away and possibly even longer until this car hits america so until then I think I am going to keep driving my truck.

[AIRMAX]

Originally Posted by FT-86GOD

So AIRMAX, these rumours are geting around here in Australia???
When 3 weeks ago i re-called a local Toyota dealership who got in contact with Toyota Australia and they new less about the FT-86 than me not to mention there is nothing mentioned on the Toyota Australia website about it......

Where did u read/hear these rumours about what Australia are getting when the Japanese public dont even know what there getting yet?. Did u hear/read these rumours from old threads in the Australia section of FT86club.com???? Cause all the info we have got is from Ron Hammerton an editor for HSV holden Australia and even he states

"While he cautioned it was too early for the company to set a price for the car that is expected to be launched globally in mid 2012 and arrive in Australian showrooms shortly after, he said the right price was critical to attract buyers up from other Toyota vehicles, such as the Corolla".

Thats just one mans opinion obviously and there was no mention of 2 versions at all......

The most exciting thing that was said to him was that and i quote. “We are looking at those sorts of things now,” he said. “I know one thing the chief engineer did when he designed it was that he made the boot area large enough to carry four spare wheels so that when you drive yourself to the race track you can take your road wheels off and put your racing wheels on,” he said.

Well, first many of my work mates and I are travel around for work related purposes and we are in the automotive engineering development. We just talk to people who are interested on the car and throwing speculations around... not far fetch speculations but logical estimations and such.
I've spoken to Toyota dealership salesmen and they dont know jack much about this car, some do... but salesmen in general DO not know much about any except try to make a sales pitch... of course except for the ones that research online.

But as some interviews with Toyota Australia have shown, they do want to bring the car here and New Zealand of course. At one stage I read that they wanted the V6 Corolla Blade instead and having both will be redundant. But plans have changed from what I gathered.

I didnt really expect this car to be released in Oz... if you asked me last year, but after more speculations and with Japan and Australia having similarities (RHD, Lexus's imported here from Japan factory etc), and Australia needing Celica replacement it all adds up.

The speculation of the 147kW and 195kW engine variants came from rumours online and from interviews from Car shows with company reps....Then there's even a rumour of the Subaru version having the 221kW version (STi engine).... as most speculated already.

In regards to Japan not knowing what they are getting.... Im not too sure, because I've been in Japan and they have pretty much every sports cars around the world available in front of them, so a Toyota FT86 wont stand out as much, but I have seen magazines at train stations with some rumours (in japanese) about Toyota's new models coming out.... mind you they have Toyota Mark Xs, Corolla Blades, Caldinia GT4s, not too mention 50K AUD 2008 GTRs over there and those cars are really nice so they aren't exactly "hanging" for an exciting Toyota car.


But just to let you know, Toyota dealership salesmen dont know anything much... even the managers wont know anything, only until Toyota Australia (HQ) tell them what models are slated, which is probably after the cars are already in production, so dont be surprise if its delayed 1 year after Japan gets theres first..... yes it sucks in Australia for sports cars in terms of time and cost.

[70NYD]

it sucks for australia for every car in terms of time and cost.. apart from holdens and fords.. but who REALLY wants them, they are ugly, unfinished and poorly assembled (ie the falcons and commodores..)

[Abflug]

I think there should be a high rev and a turboed option for both for everyones taste!
related to 3S-GE BEAMS and 3S-GTE 3rd GEN!

[4agze]

will people buy a track package for $30K if its lighter (100lbs less than base model) with a turbo that makes this car go 215BHP, 4 piston calipers front & 2 back w/ a nice fairly good seats worthy enough to use on the track? Im willing to pay that.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by 4agze

will people buy a track package for $30K if its lighter (100lbs less than base model) with a turbo that makes this car go 315BHP, 4 piston calipers front & 2 back w/ a nice fairly good seats worthy enough to use on the track? Im willing to pay that.

:happy0180:

[SneakyMilo]

I have been lurking on this forum for a while now but I feel like I need to jump in on this one.

There is a lot of good arguments for various options and pricing structures for this car. Here are my $0.02:

I do not see this vehicle being offered in a "budget" version with a lower end power plant. The reason? It just doesn't make financial sense to lower your entry level price to a lower margin point. In the US you already have a budget "sports coupe" in the form of the tC so you have a market option for customers who want a sporty car in out the door for $20K. I think Toyota's goal for this car is to bolster its budget youth brand offering with a higher margin car that draws in the older 20-somethings (people born during the original AE86 era) that have a little more cash to play with than the typical tC buyer.

I also do not see the benefit in Toyota offering the car in the $30k price spectrum because I believe they will be pricing themselves out of a class where they can be competitive and into a class were they are not as attractive an option unless the power output is much higher than we are all assuming.

If I were Toyota's product manager I would shoot for a $25k base price with a 2.0L Turbo engine in the 260-280 hp range. This puts you in a sweet spot in terms of your own product line and the cars that customers will be comparing you to. I would expect that this car will follow the typical Scion model were there are essentially no options only dealer installed custom items.

In regards to the comments referencing aftermarket modifications - Toyota doesn't care. Most people do not significantly modify their cars so Toyota's goal is to get the customer what they want out of the box (to make money), in this case it is a great driving, lightweight, quick (but not fast) RWD sports coupe. Any cheap car can be built or modified to be faster (sometimes much faster) than more expensive sports cars. That doesn't mean that modifying a car like this is a better option (I'm not saying its worse either, just not right for a lot of people).

All things said, I really hope this car comes with a 2.0L Turbo so I can ditch my Cobalt SS and run this in SCCA STX

Great discussion so far guys. I am interested to see what others have to say on this topic.

-Sneaky

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by SneakyMilo

I have been lurking on this forum for a while now but I feel like I need to jump in on this one.

There is a lot of good arguments for various options and pricing structures for this car. Here are my $0.02:

I do not see this vehicle being offered in a "budget" version with a lower end power plant. The reason? It just doesn't make financial sense to lower your entry level price to a lower margin point. In the US you already have a budget "sports coupe" in the form of the tC so you have a market option for customers who want a sporty car in out the door for $20K. I think Toyota's goal for this car is to bolster its budget youth brand offering with a higher margin car that draws in the older 20-somethings (people born during the original AE86 era) that have a little more cash to play with than the typical tC buyer.

I also do not see the benefit in Toyota offering the car in the $30k price spectrum because I believe they will be pricing themselves out of a class where they can be competitive and into a class were they are not as attractive an option unless the power output is much higher than we are all assuming.

If I were Toyota's product manager I would shoot for a $25k base price with a 2.0L Turbo engine in the 260-280 hp range. This puts you in a sweet spot in terms of your own product line and the cars that customers will be comparing you to. I would expect that this car will follow the typical Scion model were there are essentially no options only dealer installed custom items.

In regards to the comments referencing aftermarket modifications - Toyota doesn't care. Most people do not significantly modify their cars so Toyota's goal is to get the customer what they want out of the box (to make money), in this case it is a great driving, lightweight, quick (but not fast) RWD sports coupe. Any cheap car can be built or modified to be faster (sometimes much faster) than more expensive sports cars. That doesn't mean that modifying a car like this is a better option (I'm not saying its worse either, just not right for a lot of people).

All things said, I really hope this car comes with a 2.0L Turbo so I can ditch my Cobalt SS and run this in SCCA STX

Great discussion so far guys. I am interested to see what others have to say on this topic.

-Sneaky

This was a great Read, Thank you! and you made some awesome points. I hope that a lot of this is true. It's late and ym head is all blank I'll make some more better points tomm. XD

[FT-86GOD]

AIRMAX

Yeah i talked to only the state managers, 1 in W.A and then put onto 1 in NSW..... I wasnt surprised they new nothing... I rang a few months ago as well so it wasnt new....

I had never thought about how many different options the Japanese market had in the way of sports cars.. I had always thought the drift/race enthusiasts over there would to be glued to this new Toyota as i am but ur probably right...

I never doubted the FT-86 coming to AUS and NZ if it was made into production though.... There is plenty of room for it like u said...

[FT-86GOD]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

it sucks for australia for every car in terms of time and cost.. apart from holdens and fords.. but who REALLY wants them, they are ugly, unfinished and poorly assembled (ie the falcons and commodores..)

Our Ford XR6 Turbos and anything Holden VZ or VE built with a 6 litre or bigger is fantastic value for money... The only problem is the shit weak rear end i.e f@#ken IRS suspension..... Weight is an issue but can be reduced significantly but the other major problem is the limited access to aftermarket handling parts..... Overall both the straight 6 turbo ford and 6-6.2 litre holden motors are strong and capable of over 450hp with stock internals but until they wise up and go to double rear wishbone suspension they will be limited fun at the track......

[Aki]

Originally Posted by SneakyMilo

I do not see this vehicle being offered in a "budget" version with a lower end power plant. The reason? It just doesn't make financial sense to lower your entry level price to a lower margin point. In the US you already have a budget "sports coupe" in the form of the tC so you have a market option for customers who want a sporty car in out the door for $20K. I think Toyota's goal for this car is to bolster its budget youth brand offering with a higher margin car that draws in the older 20-somethings (people born during the original AE86 era) that have a little more cash to play with than the typical tC buyer.

Well firstly, 20-somethings wouldn't remember when the A86 came out. If somebody's 29 now, they'd be born in 1982. The car went from 1983-87, so they'd be tiny kids. AE86 typically appeals to older people because of that, in their 30s.

Secondly, you're assuming that just because somebody has more disposable income, that they'd want to spend on it a much faster car. Sports car sales are declining if anything, which doesn't validate that assumption. It's more people in their early 20s that care about "I need this to beat car X." You get older, you get mortgages, kids, etc. Hence practicality comes into the equation.

Thirdly, if you're talking about people that want an updated AE86, the AE86 was never a fast car. The spirit of the car was that it's light and tossable, not that it'd beat a 'Stang on the drag. 250-260hp car isn't an AE86-successor anymore, that's encroaching Celica/Supra territory. From a brand identity perspective, it doesn't make sense.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by FT-86GOD

Our Ford XR6 Turbos and anything Holden VZ or VE built with a 6 litre or bigger is fantastic value for money... The only problem is the shit weak rear end i.e f@#ken IRS suspension..... Weight is an issue but can be reduced significantly but the other major problem is the limited access to aftermarket handling parts..... Overall both the straight 6 turbo ford and 6-6.2 litre holden motors are strong and capable of over 450hp with stock internals but until they wise up and go to double rear wishbone suspension they will be limited fun at the track......

Oh sorry I didn't really write that clearly
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the engines. The engines were always great. I'm talking more the interior of the cabin. Iv test driven a brand new hsv v series clubsport, and there were bits and bobs rattling all over the inside. And the handbrake was wobbly, and the trim that fits between the dash and the door almost fell of when I opend the door. Granted that coulda been just that one, but it still turned me off. Iv noticed same for the previous models.
Performance wise, my mate whose a cop really loves both the falcon and the commodore and sais that the high speed stability is pretty Fuckin good