What car to get after gt86 with 2-3x the budget

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by jvincent

It's very rare to see a Lotus or Maclaren. Not to mention that they are very sweet looking.

You need to come down to Toronto / Markham sometime they are quite easy to spot lol!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

You have to look at the "delta" between cars then and cars now. The delta is -S2000, -Evo, +Veloster, +AWD Ford turbos,+twins, +Genesis.

You're comparing 10 years ago to today right? So remove MR2 and Celica/tC and IS300 and RSX.

+Focus ST +Fiesta ST +Camaro +Challenger +500 Abarth -Tiburon -RX8

I think we're net positive from your chosen goalpost. Maybe 15 years ago would have been tighter (remove Camaro, actually fun Honda's, add in Mini) but 2007 wasn't looking too hot, a lot of good cars were dead by then.

Edit I do totally get what you're after, and I appreciate nostalgia, but now ain't too shabby and back then the ONLY thing that matches what the 86 offers is the RX-8, maybe Miata and S2k if that's your bag.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You're comparing 10 years ago to today right? So remove MR2 and Celica/tC and IS300 and RSX.

+Focus ST +Fiesta ST +Camaro +Challenger +500 Abarth -Tiburon -RX8

I think we're net positive from your chosen goalpost. Maybe 15 years ago would have been tighter (remove Camaro, actually fun Honda's, add in Mini) but 2007 wasn't looking too hot, a lot of good cars were dead by then.

Edit I do totally get what you're after, and I appreciate nostalgia, but now ain't too shabby and back then the ONLY thing that matches what the 86 offers is the RX-8, maybe Miata and S2k if that's your bag.

I forgot about the RX8, that was kind of close to the FRS minus the rotary engine troubles. I also forgot that it's already 2017 lol.

The S2000 was definitely a higher performance car, which I was sad to see go. The 2zz Celica was pretty good for a FWD car, though I suppose in the last few years Honda has stepped up their game. The MR2 only made it to 2005 I suppose, but that chassis was very potent despite many compromises.

Take what I say with a grain of salt because I own a track duty MR2, walk to work, don't buy groceries, and don't care for rear seats.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

The S2000 was definitely a higher performance car, which I was sad to see go.

It was also in a higher price bracket than you remember, it competed with the Boxster and BMW Z3, well over $40k inflation adjusted from when it was introduced.

And I was thinking about it, what existed 15 years ago that would have been on par with the 86? Nothing RWD comes to mind... Yes, 20-25 years ago there was the 240SX, 30-35 years ago we had the SA/FB/FC RX-7, 40-45 you had the Datsun 240-280Z, but when it comes to lightweight, practical, affordable, and sporty, there ain't too many options.

But that's not your forte anyway. Kudos for being able to truly go barebones.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It was also in a higher price bracket than you remember, it competed with the Boxster and BMW Z3, well over $40k inflation adjusted from when it was introduced.

And I was thinking about it, what existed 15 years ago that would have been on par with the 86? Nothing RWD comes to mind... Yes, 20-25 years ago there was the 240SX, 30-35 years ago we had the SA/FB/FC RX-7, 40-45 you had the Datsun 240-280Z, but when it comes to lightweight, practical, affordable, and sporty, there ain't too many options.

I'm aware it was 40k, wasn't the Boxster around 45k?

I don't like the soft top, but I love how Honda went a little crazy and gave it rear weight bias and what was basically a dead reliable race motor. It wasn't a very good value, but as a kid in 2000 I thought they looked so cool, and later I learned they were serious track machines. The early Boxster was weighed down by a crappy engine (and the usual Porsche leather and sound deadening), though its practical, comfortable sports car formula was a good idea.

If I had more parking space I would probably have to get myself an AP1 S2000. I hope Honda can make another RWD car with a touch of their engine magic (that doesn't cost 170k), because it's been too long.

[Yardjass]

You could get an S2000 off the showroom floor for a little over $30,000. That may be 40 grand inflation adjusted now, but the Boxster actually was over 40 grand back then.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I hope Honda can make another RWD car with a touch of their engine magic (that doesn't cost 170k), because it's been too long.

I've given up hope that will ever happen. Honda killed off their naturally aspirated K series because the higher performance versions (100+ hp/L) wouldn't meet global emissions/FE standards. Same for the F series. It's been a decade now and the new Civics that Honda dumped their resources into (including the Type-R) are turbocharged and FWD. Low-revving, downsized turbo engines are the way of the future.

Not to mention Honda doesn't seem to have any interest in developing another RWD chassis anyway. There were some rumors last year about Honda creating an S2000 successor to mark its 70th anniversary in 2018 but Honda Europe's Head of Sales recently said while he liked the idea of a new S2000, the affordable lightweight sports car market was basically dead. He's right considering how abysmally the original S2000 sold. The ND Miata/Fiat 124 aren't doing that hot, and even BRZ/FR-S sales have dropped off considerably.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I'm aware it was 40k, wasn't the Boxster around 45k?

Originally Posted by Yardjass

You could get an S2000 off the showroom floor for a little over $30,000. That may be 40 grand inflation adjusted now, but the Boxster actually was over 40 grand back then.

MSRP back when it was introduced was around $32k, like any car, some paid more, some paid less.
http://www.autotrader.com/2000-honda...?modelId=13800
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-tal...and-new-68403/
https://www.cars.com/research/honda-...usb10hoc051a0/


I was wrong, Boxster came in at $41k. So a $9k difference ain't nothing to sneeze at, but a greedy Honda dealer and a Porsche dealer willing to discount, thousands weighed the two against each other.

http://www.autotrader.com/1999-porsc...p?modelId=4821

Z3 was $36k for the 6-cylinder.
http://www.autotrader.com/1999-bmw-Z3.jsp

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Not to mention Honda doesn't seem to have any interest in developing another RWD chassis anyway.

Wut, Honda is making a mid-engined RWD car right now.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Wut, Honda is making a mid-engined RWD car right now.

Yah that's why I said "another". Unless you're thinking they would base the next S2000 off that chassis, which I can't see happening.

[7 skulls]

I have to drive an hour to get anywhere, so this car.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2016/08/...e-lexus-lc500/

[Jen]

I bought a new Z51 3LT Corvette. I fit your demographic, 30's, no kids. After a lot of research and test drives, I traded my '14 Camaro towards the vette. It was around 75k, so close to your price point. The vette is the best car for the money.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

If I had more parking space I would probably have to get myself an AP1 S2000. I hope Honda can make another RWD car with a touch of their engine magic (that doesn't cost 170k), because it's been too long.

I think what's missing from Honda these days is primarily cockpit and ergonomic magic imo, and of course Shigeru Uehara.

When the S2000 first came out in 1999 as their 50th anniversary piece, the price started at around $48k CAD. During the same era, an Integra Type R or Prelude Type SH was going for over $30k CAD. BRZ is more in the latter price bracket. Boxster was a $60k CAD car.

The one thing in common with S2000 and BRZ/86 is that they are both made out of nostalgia from their historic offerings.

BTW what sound deadening with the Boxster? That hardtop was fucking heavy tho!

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I've given up hope that will ever happen. Honda killed off their naturally aspirated K series because the higher performance versions (100+ hp/L) wouldn't meet global emissions/FE standards. Same for the F series. It's been a decade now and the new Civics that Honda dumped their resources into (including the Type-R) are turbocharged and FWD. Low-revving, downsized turbo engines are the way of the future.

Not to mention Honda doesn't seem to have any interest in developing another RWD chassis anyway..

That's not exactly true, a lot of the supercars still have high revving engines. The brand new Audi R8 V10 still goes past 8000rpm, and the top of the line Porsche motors are going past 9000rpm.

There is nothing inherently wrong with NA and high revs, you can make the emissions work. The K20A and K24A2 were designed in the early 2000s, which is what, 2 whole emissions regulation updates ago? There's no reason to try and make the cold start and catalyst warranty requirements work on such an old engine design, and customers are demanding more torque, which is why almost everyone is going turbo.

If it's any glimmer of hope, the K24W7 actually still revs past 7000rpm despite that being completely unnecessary.

Either way, I'm okay with any of the current 4 cylinder Honda engines being in a RWD car. They all have pretty respectable power output and efficiency, have higher-than-average rev limiters, and seem to share much of the bottom end with their predecessors, which could be safely overrevved quite a bit. I am not a fan of turbos, but that won't be a problem; I'll turn down the boost for better response, then modify the turbine so it makes hp at the top end. The S660 really got my hopes up because it is very out of character for Honda to make such a thing, so I am hoping they take the RMR mantle from Toyota and make something epic.

Originally Posted by krayzie

BTW what sound deadening with the Boxster? That hardtop was fucking heavy tho!

The Boxster is loud? LOL. Surely you kid. My MR2 Spyder (a very very loud car to begin with) has all the sound insulating cubby and soft top stowage parts gutted for a roll bar, so there is literally just the firewall between me and the engine, plus a few rather useless bits of cotton padding the PO taped on. Porsches have very minimal road (well, this is dependent on tire) and wind noise, at least when compared to cheap 25k cars. A surprising amount of engine noise makes it into the cabin, but that's the premium stereo system you're paying for right?