Should I go AT or MT?

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Nope. I don't give a shit. For instance, I think it's sad that people feel a need to outgrow (more like suppress) their inner child. I'm in my mid-50s and would be hooning around all day long given a good supply of rubber and a safe place to do it.

Life's too goddamn short to sweat the bullshit.

People outgrow things naturally; and it's different for everyone. This has nothing to do with suppressing an inner child. It's about people using their own definition of 'fun' to sway folks one way or another in making car purchase decisions. If someone wants to buy the car for hooning all day given a good supply of rubber and a safe place, then MT is the obvious choice. For any other purpose, it's not.

Maybe you should give a shit when people apply their own subjective opinions globally as it gives people the wrong impression that there is a 'correct' way things should be.

Statements like 'this car should not be made in AT' or 'manual or nothing' are blanket statements that may lead people who have not had the experience with both to make up their own minds.

You may not give a shit if someone tells you what should and shouldn't do, feel, or consider what 'fun' is, but I do; because it's oppressive behavior. You can be the oppressor, choose not to care, or be one who says something about it.

Life's too short to not give a shit about how people treat one another.

[g e]

I just like to work the gears and make "vrooom-vrooom" noises.

It's never too late to have a mid-life crisis.

[Overdrive]

I think the point he was making is people can say what they want, he's not going to let it change his mind, and others shouldn't either. If someone allows "manual or nothing" to make their decision for them, that's their choice and it's on them. It's not up to anyone to crusade against blanket statements unless they choose to. Someone choosing not to shouldn't be given grief for it in the same way one shouldn't get grief for choosing to crusade.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by shiumai

then MT is the obvious choice. For any other purpose, it's not.


You may not give a shit if someone tells you what should and shouldn't do, feel, or consider what 'fun' is, but I do; because it's oppressive behavior. You can be the oppressor, choose not to care, or be one who says something about it.

Life's too short to not give a shit about how people treat one another.

Hypocrite.

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I think the point he was making is people can say what they want, he's not going to let it change his mind, and others shouldn't either. If someone allows "manual or nothing" to make their decision for them, that's their choice and it's on them. It's not up to anyone to crusade against blanket statements unless they choose to. Someone choosing not to shouldn't be given grief for it in the same way one shouldn't get grief for choosing to crusade.

I certainly agree when it comes to folks that have had the experience to make up their own minds, but many come here looking for information (both objective and subjective) so they can make up their minds on what to buy.

A statement like 'MT gives you more control under x conditions' is much more useful than 'MT or go home', as the first one is information while the latter isn't (it's just pseudo elitist peer pressure).

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Hypocrite.

why not quote the first part of the sentence; or did you misunderstand what I wrote?

edited to add:
"If someone wants to buy the car for hooning all day given a good supply of rubber and a safe place, then MT is the obvious choice. For any other purpose, it's not."
What I wrote means that for things that you can only do with the MT or the MT is better for, then the MT is the obvious choice. For any other purpose (like daily driving, driving in the canyons, etc), the MT is no longer the obvious choice as both the MT and AT can perform those tasks well and be very enjoyable. That's why folks come here for information - because their needs may not weed out either as the obvious choice. I did not mean that the AT is the obvious choice for anything other than hooning.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by shiumai

I certainly agree when it comes to folks that have had the experience to make up their own minds, but many come here looking for information (both objective and subjective) so they can make up their minds on what to buy.

A statement like 'MT gives you more control under x conditions' is much more useful than 'MT or go home', as the first one is information while the latter isn't (it's just pseudo elitist peer pressure).

And you don't think people have enough sense to read the former and say, "hm, that's useful" and read the latter and say, "gee, thanks for nothing" and need someone to help them trim out the useless stuff? If they're coming here looking for info, one should assume they're going to think critically about any responses they're going to get, knowing that not everyone strives to actually be helpful on the Internet. If the only response to this thread was "MT or go home" I would hope the OP would ask for some elaboration and not just take that statement as gospel. If they did, though.... well, that's on them.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I think the point he was making is people can say what they want, he's not going to let it change his mind, and others shouldn't either. If someone allows "manual or nothing" to make their decision for them, that's their choice and it's on them. It's not up to anyone to crusade against blanket statements unless they choose to. Someone choosing not to shouldn't be given grief for it in the same way one shouldn't get grief for choosing to crusade.

Thank you. You said it much better than I would have.

I've tilted at many a windmill in my earlier years. People are going to do as they wish.

It's been a couple years since I've participated in an AT-vs-MT thread. I hope I've done the topic some justice here. I'm not always the best at explaining my viewpoint. This time I decided to throw away my High-Road cape and just have fun.

[Ultramaroon]

IMO, there is zero practical reason to choose an MT. It's just moar funner, that's all.

[kakacarrotcake]

Moar reliable?

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[Overdrive]

Things are only as reliable as their stamina lets them be. If someone beats the crap out of their MT or just doesn't drive it well, it's no more reliable than an AT, and very likely less. Flip side, if you never maintain an auto and just run it ragged, of course it's going to break, as would a manual treated the same way.

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

And you don't think people have enough sense to read the former and say, "hm, that's useful" and read the latter and say, "gee, thanks for nothing" and need someone to help them trim out the useless stuff? If they're coming here looking for info, one should assume they're going to think critically about any responses they're going to get, knowing that not everyone strives to actually be helpful on the Internet. If the only response to this thread was "MT or go home" I would hope the OP would ask for some elaboration and not just take that statement as gospel. If they did, though.... well, that's on them.

I'd hope folks would be able to distinguish between the two and filter out the noise. Unfortunately, that's not always the case - most of us have been on different forums (not only car ones) and seen people led down the wrong path by mistaking something thrown out in jest for sage advice. sometimes it can be attributed to youth/inexperience/naivete. so, i don't always put the responsibility on the OP's shoulders, as sometimes (being new or inexperienced), they just don't have those filters yet. that's why i feel that we do have a certain responsibility to help them by providing them with the information we think will benefit them the most.

i've been that newbie many a time, and it really can be bewildering figuring out who and what to believe or take with a grain of salt. i'm a moderator on a non car-related technical forum, so i'm probably biased towards being very clear about differentiating between subjective and objective info, and keeping the original intent/goals of the forum in mind when i answer.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by kakacarrotcake

Moar reliable?

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Nope, not for this one. I'm repeating myself... This MT is weaker and less tolerant of abuse. The clutch mechanism has known issues too.

[kakacarrotcake]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Nope, not for this one. I'm repeating myself... This MT is weaker and less tolerant of abuse. The clutch mechanism has known issues too.

Well then I suppose it's just personal preference at this point. I'll be the first to admit there's a lot I still don't know about the platform. Is there information on that available in the issues forum? I always kind of figured MT > AT in terms of reliability, especially after owning several older Hondas.