What's blocking me when I downshift from 6th to 4th

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

A quick flick out of first with immediate fingertip pressure into second usually does the trick.

If not quick enough then I also double clutch to spool up the input side for a second try. I never lean into the gear selector.

I would like to build on this with my standard knob lecture.
The biggest problem I see whenever teaching people to drive MT is the desire to grab that shift knob with a death grip and hammer it around just like they see in movies and on TV. When you grab that knob firmly some basic physics and psychology combine to make shifting way harder than it needs to be.
Shift gates actually have a fair bit of leeway to them even though they may not seem too. When you grab a shift knob firmly you are negating that leeway. A firm grip on the knob makes your body a fixed part of the shift linkage. If you do not have your hand, arm and even shoulder in exactly the right position throughout the whole action of shifting you can be resisting the gate and where the shift lever want's to go naturally. That is the physics. The psychology comes in when you meet the resistance since the brain's automatic response to this is to tell the body to simply push harder. Sure pushing harder will work but if the lever and gates are allowed to do their thing then that force should not be required.


I only tickle my knob and never grip it for any reason so I have never once had an issue with the gating in any car.


A firm grip on the knob like this means I have to maintain my whole arm in just the right spot throughout the whole shift to hit a gate:



When moving the lever up and away a light yet rapid push, with just the heel of the palm, in the basic direction allows the lever and linkage to find and slide into the gate all on it's own:



When moving the lever down or down and away then just a light touch with the tips of a couple of fingers does again let's the lever find the gate:





Toward you and up or down is just a couple of fingers and the same light pressure.





Doing these things will help with the speed of the shift since you are not losing precious micro seconds finding or fighting the gates and prevent the brain from using the more force corrective action if you are off by a bit.


Caress your knob don't beat on it! Give it a try if you don't already do this. It will feel weird at first but if done right you will quickly see what I mean.

[Ashikabi]

So what are your opinions on short shifters? Gimmick or useful?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

So what are your opinions on short shifters? Gimmick or useful?

Depending on how log the stock throw is a well designed, properly set up and adjusted short shifter will rock your world. A bad one will make you wake up screaming in the night. I put a short shifter in my Talon that was one of the best changes I ever made to a car. I have not done it with this one though since I really have not felt a need as the throw really isn't that long to start with.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by cat94

Rake as in clutch in, 6>5>4 to "spread the load"?

Yes, exactly.

This makes a lot of sense. I was testing some things out to avoid the crunch and tried someone's suggestion of centering the shift knob for a 1/2 second on a cold 1>2 shift. This resulted in 2nd being blocked entirely and having to go straight to 3rd.

Also, even with the crunch 1>2 shifts without any resistance, just not as pleasant.

Thanks for the technical response, much appreciated.

As far as the shifting unpleasantness, this transmission is t-i-g-h-t when it's brand new. (I should just type out a template for this :P) It was at about 5 Kmi when I started noticing the syncros improving. At 8 Kmi I thought "Wow, these are really nice now." Shifting steadily improved through 15 Kmi and has been stable since.

It's the first new car I've owned so manual transmission break-in is a new concept for me. Seems like the syncro components just needed to lap together.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Caress your knob don't beat on it! Give it a try if you don't already do this. It will feel weird at first but if done right you will quickly see what I mean.

Amen!

[strat61caster]

^ I can put it into any gear with two fingers, if there was no lockout on reverse I could do all 7 with just a pinch.

The interesting thing to me is the tranny really does like being spun fast, I double clutch most of my street driving downshifts, just makes it easier to slip into gear, but when on track >5k rpm it really doesn't need it. Upshifts are smoother too.

I also feed it a bit of gas going 4 -> 5 to keep the revs up, I think that's the only quirk about the car that I've developed.

Edit: I must've been high on the 4>5 change, it's fine don't know why I was adding gas, now it's time to break the habit.

[cat94]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I would like to build on this with my standard knob lecture.
The biggest problem I see whenever teaching people to drive MT is the desire to grab that shift knob with a death grip and hammer it around just like they see in movies and on TV. When you grab that knob firmly some basic physics and psychology combine to make shifting way harder than it needs to be.
Shift gates actually have a fair bit of leeway to them even though they may not seem too. When you grab a shift knob firmly you are negating that leeway. A firm grip on the knob makes your body a fixed part of the shift linkage. If you do not have your hand, arm and even shoulder in exactly the right position throughout the whole action of shifting you can be resisting the gate and where the shift lever want's to go naturally. That is the physics. The psychology comes in when you meet the resistance since the brain's automatic response to this is to tell the body to simply push harder. Sure pushing harder will work but if the lever and gates are allowed to do their thing then that force should not be required.


I only tickle my knob and never grip it for any reason so I have never once had an issue with the gating in any car.


A firm grip on the knob like this means I have to maintain my whole arm in just the right spot throughout the whole shift to hit a gate:



When moving the lever up and away a light yet rapid push, with just the heel of the palm, in the basic direction allows the lever and linkage to find and slide into the gate all on it's own:



When moving the lever down or down and away then just a light touch with the tips of a couple of fingers does again let's the lever find the gate:





Toward you and up or down is just a couple of fingers and the same light pressure.





Doing these things will help with the speed of the shift since you are not losing precious micro seconds finding or fighting the gates and prevent the brain from using the more force corrective action if you are off by a bit.


Caress your knob don't beat on it! Give it a try if you don't already do this. It will feel weird at first but if done right you will quickly see what I mean.

I have one of these weighted shift knobs. They're great. Shifts feel like slicing through butter with just a flick of the knob. The only downside is 4>5 shifts are awkward. It's difficult to 'palm' and I've resorted to using the area underneath my thumb to do the shift (which is undesirable in the case of a misshift into 3rd). I've been switching back and forth between the stock shift knob and this one recently and I've come to realize that I wish the knob was slightly shorter and had a round top.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Yes, exactly.


As far as the shifting unpleasantness, this transmission is t-i-g-h-t when it's brand new. (I should just type out a template for this :P) It was at about 5 Kmi when I started noticing the syncros improving. At 8 Kmi I thought "Wow, these are really nice now." Shifting steadily improved through 15 Kmi and has been stable since.

It's the first new car I've owned so manual transmission break-in is a new concept for me. Seems like the syncro components just needed to lap together.

On the same boat. It'd be nice if I had more to compare to.

Also, I tried your suggestion for a quicker cold 1>2 shift action and there was no crunch.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by cat94

I tried your suggestion for a quicker cold 1>2 shift action and there was no crunch.

Boom! *drops mic*

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Boom! *drops mic*

Preaching our theory eh!

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Preaching our theory eh!

Remember when you tried pausing on purpose? Pretty dramatic, right?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Remember when you tried pausing on purpose? Pretty dramatic, right?

Yep! Since I had never experienced it I was totally baffled by the whole issue until I tried it.