Fuji Heavy Industry said 5,000 orders of the BRZ so far by the end of May. 70% are MT

[eikond]

Let's be sure we idenfity which market this news is about. It seems to me they are talking about the JDM market. Just because Japan is out to March of 13 for deliveries doens't mean the USDM is.

If you want one bad enough, you can get one. I know there are dealerships in Colorado selling them off the lot at or near invoice. They are also plentiful in New England.

[TylerD951]

I know this is just JDM news but the only dealer within 100 miles that has received BRZs have sold theirs for $35,900 and $36,400 limited MT (WRB) and limited AT (black) with rear diffuser and auto dimming RV mirror. They are making some solid money off those.

[p911gt3]

Originally Posted by (K)

I would almost argue FOR this initial limited supply because the demand shows that the market is there. Now they have all the more reason to pump out STI/TRD variants. Competitors take note. Looking at YOU, Honda.

I am just wondering, How many of you guys would love to see the return of the 240/200/180/S13-15 from Nissan? Every time I look at our new toyobaru I get good happy feelings like one did from those cars

A new rear drive sports car (under 28kUSD [2012 money]) revival would be amazing! new Miata, FRS/BRZ, Gen Coupe*, add a 240/S13, or one other and I think we would all benefit just like back in the late 80's early 90's. Just this time, tell them to quit adding weight to our cars with stupid junk (like electric motors for everything)!


Back to your post, it would be great for the FF fans too if there was a new Integra/RSX, and a new celica too. What I would really go for from Honda comes in the form of a FR Coupe/Fastback version of the S2000

Here is to hoping we all get our way!

[Tman08]

Originally Posted by eikond

Let's be sure we idenfity which market this news is about. It seems to me they are talking about the JDM market. Just because Japan is out to March of 13 for deliveries doens't mean the USDM is.

If you want one bad enough, you can get one. I know there are dealerships in Colorado selling them off the lot at or near invoice. They are also plentiful in New England.

I agree. The first thing that came to mind was JDM and not here. Regardless of the availability if searching, I will be ordering one for next year at a local dealer I've selected.

I'm in no rush at the moment, but thought at first that this would affect when I actually ordered it....but then realized its for JDM.

[sdiver68]

Mazda tried and missed the mark: RX-8, Miata
Honda tried and missed the mark: S2000
Nissan tried and came closer: 370Z
Hyundai tried and imho came closest: Genesis Coupe

What's the criteria?

1. 2(+2) pure "fun" RWD sports car with serious Auto-X/Track day credibility and looks to match
2. Practical for DD use in terms of space, reliability, maintenance, fuel economy, and some level of comfort
3. Available near the average new car price which right now I believe is around $27k

Take away the RWD Sports Car and you can add all the hot hatches to the mix including the Mini Cooper, GTI, Civic Si, SRT, etc...
Take away pricing and you have options upmarket such as Cayman, 135i, Corvette, etc...
Ford has the Mustang/Chevy the Camaro which most Sports Car people consider to be muscle cars right or wrong.

[thill]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Mazda tried and missed the mark: RX-8, Miata
Honda tried and missed the mark: S2000
Nissan tried and came closer: 370Z
Hyundai tried and imho came closest: Genesis Coupe

What's the criteria?

1. 2(+2) pure "fun" RWD sports car with serious Auto-X/Track day credibility
2. Practical for DD use in terms of space, reliability, maintenance, fuel economy, and some level of comfort
3. Available near the average new car price which right now I believe is around $27k

Take away the RWD Sports Car and you can add all the hot hatches to the mix including the Mini Cooper, GTI, etc...

Take away pricing and you have options upmarket such as Cayman, 135i, Corvette, etc...
Ford has the Mustang/Chevy the Camaro which most Sports Car people consider to be muscle cars right or wrong.

I don't agree with "missed the mark" at all for many of the above cars. Most of them are 2 seater (not +2) that have had successful runs.

S2000 had a 10 year run, and was met with lots of accolades and favorable reviews.

The Miata has been for sale since 1989 and continues to be sold. Very favorable reviews and hardcore support.

The 370z succeeds the 350z. I think the Z cars have hit the mark. Very popular cars, with solid reviews..

Not really understanding your point. All of the above are 2 seaters with no backseats and the Miata and S2000 are convertibles.

The verdict is out on the Gencoupe, but sales are up over last year and I have not heard of any plans for Hyundai to kill off the car. It will most likely continue to evolve.

[cwik]

I have a feeling if this trend continues, a lot of other manufacturers are going to start throwing money into small sports cars hoping to see the same success, but only see a fraction of what they were hoping for.

Subaru/Toyota set their expectations low, as is evidence by the production numbers. And thinking logically, it makes sense. Why would *so* many people want a sports car with the traditional sacrifices (harsher ride, more noise, less space for passengers, etc.)? I know we're all car enthusiasts, but take a step back and realize just how many boring cars are out there. The majority use cars for commuting, point A to point B.

But let's say you run Nissan, and see that Subaru & Toyota struck gold with this car. You're probably going to try and get some 240SX movement going, and fast. I see 2 ways of going about this. Either make it "faster around the 'ring" (read that as throwing technology into the car to make it better on paper in every category), or address the concerns that have arisen from the BRZ/FR-S. The first route is most likely going to result in bad reception (lack of technology and performance goals was what made the BRZ/FR-S special), while the second route sounds pretty difficult too. What complaints are there about the BRZ/FR-S? The biggest is probably the "lack of power", but in my opinion, that contributes to the balance of the car.

Then there's the issue of timing. Subaru/Toyota have been working on this for something like 4 or 5 years! Unless these other manufacturers have been in R&D mode specifically for a small sports car for quite some time, it sounds like Subaru/Toyota will enjoy this spot light for some time to come.

I know there are lots of small sports cars out there, but I'm thinking companies will try and align some of their models to compete more directly with the BRZ/FR-S, but they're trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Regardless, here's hoping to a generation of fun, exciting, and affordable sports cars starting now!

[SAP]

Originally Posted by lucius

...

try this on for size...

emailed Subaru South Africa in December 2011 reagrding the BRZ. Asked to be put on the list the same month. Filled in the Offer to purchase the same month. ...well....still waiting for the car...no ETA...

Lucius, from what I have been told, on good authority, is that South Africa will be receiving 300 Toyota and only 10 BRZ this year.
So if you want the BRZ, be prepared to wait until Dec/Jan.
I personally have my name down for the 86. Servicing my Subaru Impreza has been a real pain with so few dealerships around. Subarus don't hold their value in SA either

[Koolkiid]

Originally Posted by tripjammer

But there are cars sitting on the lots right now...BRZ and FR-S. If you really want one, you can find one right now. It might not be the color you want, but they are out there, with more unspoken ones coming each month.

Yup the Fr-s is sitting on lots. I am surrounded by 6 or 7 dealers and they all have 1 or 2. Some have been sitting there for more than a week and they are all calling me. I told them I am only paying invoice price since I am paying in full cash.

[DeepHunta]

Originally Posted by cwik

I have a feeling if this trend continues, a lot of other manufacturers are going to start throwing money into small sports cars hoping to see the same success, but only see a fraction of what they were hoping for.

Subaru/Toyota set their expectations low, as is evidence by the production numbers. And thinking logically, it makes sense. Why would *so* many people want a sports car with the traditional sacrifices (harsher ride, more noise, less space for passengers, etc.)? I know we're all car enthusiasts, but take a step back and realize just how many boring cars are out there. The majority use cars for commuting, point A to point B.

But let's say you run Nissan, and see that Subaru & Toyota struck gold with this car. You're probably going to try and get some 240SX movement going, and fast. I see 2 ways of going about this. Either make it "faster around the 'ring" (read that as throwing technology into the car to make it better on paper in every category), or address the concerns that have arisen from the BRZ/FR-S. The first route is most likely going to result in bad reception (lack of technology and performance goals was what made the BRZ/FR-S special), while the second route sounds pretty difficult too. What complaints are there about the BRZ/FR-S? The biggest is probably the "lack of power", but in my opinion, that contributes to the balance of the car.

Then there's the issue of timing. Subaru/Toyota have been working on this for something like 4 or 5 years! Unless these other manufacturers have been in R&D mode specifically for a small sports car for quite some time, it sounds like Subaru/Toyota will enjoy this spot light for some time to come.

I know there are lots of small sports cars out there, but I'm thinking companies will try and align some of their models to compete more directly with the BRZ/FR-S, but they're trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Regardless, here's hoping to a generation of fun, exciting, and affordable sports cars starting now!

Good insight my friend. totally agree. Now...when is the official meet for NW owners?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by cwik

IBut let's say you run Nissan, and see that Subaru & Toyota struck gold with this car. You're probably going to try and get some 240SX movement going, and fast. I see 2 ways of going about this.

If I'm running Nissan I'm saying dig into the 1984 archives and deliver the MID4! Yes, I'm still on that rant....

[White64Goat]

Placed my order last Wednesday........got my out and will wait for the boat to arrive.... may make a nice Christmas gift though....

[White64Goat]

Let us not forget the 240SX...........

[Chewie4299]

Originally Posted by Koolkiid

Yup the Fr-s is sitting on lots. I am surrounded by 6 or 7 dealers and they all have 1 or 2. Some have been sitting there for more than a week and they are all calling me. I told them I am only paying invoice price since I am paying in full cash.

If you are paying cash then the ONLY place they can make money on the deal is the purchase price. If you were financing through them or trading they'd be able to work more with you. But selling you a car at invoice makes zero sense at all if you are paying cash.

I'm not a dealer but I know enough to know how to work out a favorable deal for both myself and the dealer. Paying cash and demanding invoice is idiotic. Not only do I think you won't be successful I hope you aren't.


I'll happily pay msrp but I will be brutal on my trade. There's more profit for them in most trades than in sticker prices on new cars.

The more fair deals for both dealer and customer that are struck the less price gouging will occur and the more successful the vehicle will be because more people will buy them. This will lead to further R&D in this segment by Toyobaru and other manufacturers which is excellent for us in the long run.

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