Which SC to choose: Cosworth Vs. Edelbrock Vs. Harrop?

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by Matt@Cosworth

the low temp thermostat will lower engine temps so it buys you head room in hot climates , it does not increase the cooling capacity but will buy you time

and the stock airbox doesn't pose a restriction until 300Bhp ( crank) and we measured no pressure drop over the 'long' intake at this power level
the throttle on the other hand does pose a restriction
I should also point out that the TVS 1320 is not capable of generating any more boost pressure than the 900 unit
yes it reaches the boost limit quicker but its the same pressure ratio for a greater frictional penalty and cost

A Couple more questions Please,
1- How much HP should I expect to get with Cosworth Stage 2.3 (1.3 + 2.0) and a tune for (95 RON 91 US Octane)?
And are you going to release a stage 3 with a forged internals and smaller pully??

[Matt@Cosworth]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

Thanks Matt for your input on this thread...
1- The OEM airbox becomes restrictive after 300 BHP... I was aiming for 300 WHP.
2- Do you recommend a throttle-body replacement?
3- TVS900 Vs. TVS1320... reaching the full boost early means having more power in mid RPM range? I hate having the power stuck waaay up in the rev range.
I DD my car to work and low to mid range power and torque is a main target (After all that's why I chose screw-type superchargers instead of Turbos) to have as much as possible low to Med range Torque and Power.

1st thing to say is any power over 280Bhp is playing with fire on stock internals
some folks get away with it but its a lottery as to whether your particular set of rods will go pop or not

so yes if you want 330 bhp / 300whp then it best to replace the airbox with a larger filter element part
if you can find a larger diameter or more free flowing throttle thats not very overpriced ( cheapest I've seen is $1000.....) then go for it as it will pay dividends

and yes a 1320 will come on boost earlier than a 900 unit, its bigger
but the 900 can be spun faster to compensate

[Matt@Cosworth]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

A Couple more questions Please,
1- How much HP should I expect to get with Cosworth Stage 2.3 (1.3 + 2.0) and a tune for (95 RON 91 US Octane)?
And are you going to release a stage 3 with a forged internals and smaller pully??

a stage 2.3 on 95 RON should make about 270Bhp

and we plan to release a forged bottom end very shortly along with a smaller pulley

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by Matt@Cosworth

1st thing to say is any power over 280Bhp is playing with fire on stock internals
some folks get away with it but its a lottery as to whether your particular set of rods will go pop or not

so yes if you want 330 bhp / 300whp then it best to replace the airbox with a larger filter element part
if you can find a larger diameter or more free flowing throttle thats not very overpriced ( cheapest I've seen is $1000.....) then go for it as it will pay dividends

and yes a 1320 will come on boost earlier than a 900 unit, its bigger
but the 900 can be spun faster to compensate

Edlebrock got it right with their huge airbox...

Originally Posted by Matt@Cosworth

a stage 2.3 on 95 RON should make about 270Bhp
and we plan to release a forged bottom end very shortly along with a smaller pulley

270 BHP if I take away the ~%20 drive train loss that will leave me with 217 WHP...
those are the most expensive 56 WHP ever... around $268 per HP...
As stage 2.3 costs a whooping 15K USD from your certified dealer in Bahrain!!!

For the forged internals... when? approximately...

Many thanks for sticking with me and answering my questions

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

Edlebrock got it right with their huge airbox...




270 BHP if I take away the ~%20 drive train loss that will leave me with 217 WHP...
those are the most expensive 56 WHP ever... around $268 per HP...
As stage 2.3 costs a whooping 15K USD from your certified dealer in Bahrain!!!

For the forged internals... when? approximately...

Many thanks for sticking with me and answering my questions

What are your power goals? Just the 300 whp? And yeah, the full 2.3 kit can be quite costly. Then again, I have a somewhat bastard exhaust. Like my cat back. The Cosworth was just too loud for me. But the headers are awesome. Also Matt helped tweak my tune so I'm sure he'd be more than happy to tune yours if you had a different exhaust. I will give it to edelbrock for having a massive intake. I'm sure something like the perrin would work too.

[Xxyion]

I just got an Edelbrock kit installed and while i can't comment on the technical aspects i can give you my views on the kit so far. I've run it for about 700 miles so far.

1. I really like the look, i didn't want something OEM looking. I wanted people to notice that i had something different.
2. Currently not on the Edelbrock CARB tune. Thats the tune that comes with the kit and is rated at around 240-250 whp.
3. On the Delicious Flash n Go tune being custom tunes by Zach from Delicious tuning, I'm expecting to hit probably 270-280 who after the tune is complete.
4. LOTS of low end torque on this kit. I've had to learn to feather the throttle a bit when i get going in first gear.
5. Gas mileage went down only slightly from 29 mpg to about 26 mpg.
6. The build quality is solid, while there were a lot of little parts, the kit itself is super solid from what i could tell.

I'm currently running 91 California Shell. But i know people have been able to hit about 300hp on this kit running E85. If you do go that route, you WILL need bigger injectors which can be quite costly.

Hope this helps

[Bfranklyn86]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

I just got an Edelbrock kit installed and while i can't comment on the technical aspects i can give you my views on the kit so far. I've run it for about 700 miles so far.

1. I really like the look, i didn't want something OEM looking. I wanted people to notice that i had something different.
2. Currently not on the Edelbrock CARB tune. Thats the tune that comes with the kit and is rated at around 240-250 whp.
3. On the Delicious Flash n Go tune being custom tunes by Zach from Delicious tuning, I'm expecting to hit probably 270-280 who after the tune is complete.
4. LOTS of low end torque on this kit. I've had to learn to feather the throttle a bit when i get going in first gear.
5. Gas mileage went down only slightly from 29 mpg to about 26 mpg.
6. The build quality is solid, while there were a lot of little parts, the kit itself is super solid from what i could tell.

I'm currently running 91 California Shell. But i know people have been able to hit about 300hp on this kit running E85. If you do go that route, you WILL need bigger injectors which can be quite costly.

Hope this helps

What exhaust set up are you running? [just seen it underneath your post, sorry, ignore. I would say that hoping to hit 270-280 with the stock manifold on pump gas seems a bit optimistic to me, but I hope you get there!]

[JDM4E]

While the initial OPs question is of course valid and interesting, I would like to introduce a thought about the OPs goal of "300 HP". This is of course not a "problem" only here, but overall. By wanting just a nice number for not a particular reason other then "I have 300 HP bro" is so wrong on so many levels. But lets say our brain is playing tricks and just want a nice number. How about this? Horsepower is a retarded ancient unit same as inches and so, why not to opt for civilised target of 200 kW? 200 kW is very nice number as well, is a normalised unit and is 268 HP. You have a nice number, on better units and you can keep you internals and money significantly more save.
How about that?

[Xxyion]

Originally Posted by Bfranklyn86

What exhaust set up are you running? [just seen it underneath your post, sorry, ignore. I would say that hoping to hit 270-280 with the stock manifold on pump gas seems a bit optimistic to me, but I hope you get there!]

yeah we'll see. I'm gonna dyno it after the tune is finished.

[Matt@Cosworth]

Originally Posted by UNREAL

Edlebrock got it right with their huge airbox...




270 BHP if I take away the ~%20 drive train loss that will leave me with 217 WHP...
those are the most expensive 56 WHP ever... around $268 per HP...
As stage 2.3 costs a whooping 15K USD from your certified dealer in Bahrain!!!

For the forged internals... when? approximately...

Many thanks for sticking with me and answering my questions

OK most folks seem to record about 240whp or therabouts with our kit so maybe the drivetrain losses aren't quite as extreme as you may think? Also we deliberately under quoted the uplift as +80Bhp (crank) in reality its more like 95Bhp (crank)

and probably the reason the kit is a lot in Bahrain is the the exhaust cost

if you leave the stock manifold on it and fit a decent catback of at least 2.5" diameter with all straight through silencers you'll still hit 270Bhp on 93 and 260 on 91

we hope to have the uprated bottom end for sale about March time

[Chronology]

I know the OP hasn't asked but have you looked at the Kraftwerks SC? The ONLY reason I bring this up is because if you have an issue with any other S/C (that I have found) your stuck on the road. With the Kraftwerks, its run off a separate belt, so if its not working its a ton of dead weight, but you can get home and not need to be towed.

Just a thought.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Chronology

I know the OP hasn't asked but have you looked at the Kraftwerks SC? The ONLY reason I bring this up is because if you have an issue with any other S/C (that I have found) your stuck on the road. With the Kraftwerks, its run off a separate belt, so if its not working its a ton of dead weight, but you can get home and not need to be towed.

Just a thought.

Or just carry and extra belt in the car?

[UNREAL]

Originally Posted by weederr33

What are your power goals? Just the 300 whp? And yeah, the full 2.3 kit can be quite costly. Then again, I have a somewhat bastard exhaust. Like my cat back. The Cosworth was just too loud for me. But the headers are awesome. Also Matt helped tweak my tune so I'm sure he'd be more than happy to tune yours if you had a different exhaust. I will give it to edelbrock for having a massive intake. I'm sure something like the perrin would work too.

My ultimate performance goal on this car is 0-100kmh in 5.0-4.8 Sec

The number produced by stage 2.3 (91 Octane) is embarrassing... Very embarrassing, no way around it, I was hoping for something better... at least 230-240 WHP.

Originally Posted by Xxyion

I just got an Edelbrock kit installed and while i can't comment on the technical aspects i can give you my views on the kit so far. I've run it for about 700 miles so far.

1. I really like the look, i didn't want something OEM looking. I wanted people to notice that i had something different.
2. Currently not on the Edelbrock CARB tune. Thats the tune that comes with the kit and is rated at around 240-250 whp.
3. On the Delicious Flash n Go tune being custom tunes by Zach from Delicious tuning, I'm expecting to hit probably 270-280 who after the tune is complete.
4. LOTS of low end torque on this kit. I've had to learn to feather the throttle a bit when i get going in first gear.
5. Gas mileage went down only slightly from 29 mpg to about 26 mpg.
6. The build quality is solid, while there were a lot of little parts, the kit itself is super solid from what i could tell.

I'm currently running 91 California Shell. But i know people have been able to hit about 300hp on this kit running E85. If you do go that route, you WILL need bigger injectors which can be quite costly.

Hope this helps

1- That helps a lot thank you
2- Wow 270-280 on 91 Fuel and on stock internals and normal engine compression? that would be great, if verified I'll go for E-Force.
3- for the look part it will go really well with my red Gt 86... I don't mind the look what I do mind (a bit) is the fact it sits the highest among all three.

Thanks again

Originally Posted by JDM4E

While the initial OPs question is of course valid and interesting, I would like to introduce a thought about the OPs goal of "300 HP". This is of course not a "problem" only here, but overall. By wanting just a nice number for not a particular reason other then "I have 300 HP bro" is so wrong on so many levels. But lets say our brain is playing tricks and just want a nice number. How about this? Horsepower is a retarded ancient unit same as inches and so, why not to opt for civilised target of 200 kW? 200 kW is very nice number as well, is a normalised unit and is 268 HP. You have a nice number, on better units and you can keep you internals and money significantly more save.
How about that?

As I mentioned in the beginning of this reply...
My ultimate performance goal on this car is 0-100kmh in 5.0-4.8 Sec
(Yes I do care about acceleration in a straight line, lots of Highways where I live, I also enjoy the precise cornering-ability on this car and the amazing steering feel too, otherwise I wouldn't go and buy the same car after my "2013 Toyota 86 S" one got totaled while sitting outside my house, now I have a 2016 Nur-Spec Toyota GT86)
I feel (Yes gut feeling only, No science) that such number will not be achievable with less than 300WHP.. that's where the 300 came from... add to that in the last 12 years I never owned anything but V8's the reason I jumped to the 86 wagon is the out-of-the-box handling and the size of the after market upgrades available.

[Chronology]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Or just carry and extra belt in the car?

Your assumption that snapping a belt is the only failure that can happen? Keeping a belt in the car is one thing, trying to figure out a S/C failure at a track or on the side of the road is a different story. With the Kraftwerks, you can pretty much "disable the s/c' by removing the belt. So if you have a critical failure on the S/C (minus the belt) your stuck. I personally don't have the skills or tools to diag that type of failure and would require me to take it to the shop, id rather drive my car then have it towed.