Dealership experience - Thoughts?

[FX86]

you should have asked them for the KBB price but in all seriousness you should have BLEW UP THE DEALERSHIP!!!

[Lantana frs]

As a consumer, im entitled to death and taxes. Everything else is either my responsibility or a bonus. Ive never had a car dealer lock the door behind me. No is a complete sentence.

[FX86]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

what color car was it ?

that's a racist question

[Protege13]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Wait it out. You may have to expand your search area. I found my car 200 miles away. It was a better deal than my local dealer.
Honestly if they made you feel like an idiot don't bother going back. There's a reason why that car hasn't t been sold.
Keep looking, wait it out, that is if you don't need a car right away.

After my experience there I kind of wondered about that too... that there's a reason why it hasn't sold. I mean it seems like anyone interested in an FRS would be all over it. I know I was until we sat down to talk.

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

As someone who works in the car business, best thing a buyer can do is not be irate or think you're better than the sales person. Treating a sales person like crap in anyway won't get you anywhere but the door.

That sales person's mistake was getting upset at you for asking for a lower price. Rather than being upset that you asked that, he should have educated you on exactly how much money they're losing by selling the car to you at their quoted 21,979, which I'll tell you right now is a negative $2k at the minimum. That's ridiculously low imo, and that's to the point where I would let a person leave (after professionally declining their offer to lower the price). Profit is not made on new cars these days despite what people think. New cars is generally a loss of profit.

Now, you should watch out for dealership addendums (required crap that they force you to get in order to get their quoted price), like stupid door edge guards and low quality paint protection films. Dealerships around me mark up the cost of that by 600%!

As mentioned, also watch out for their documentation fee. Some dealerships out there will go to the highest that Toyota will allow (which is crazy imo).

Do research on credit score tiers and their accompanying interest rates. The score we pull at a dealership is not the same as Credit Karma or what your bank may show you. It could be the same, but a lot of times it swings very drastically for better or worse. It's more of a credit rating since it's factoring way more history than Credit Karma, etc. Make sure they show you your score and that you sign off on your score. If they don't show you your score after doing a credit application, then they're up to something.

Lastly, if that specific FR-S is out of your budget, maybe ask yourself if you are on the right car (as you mentioned, maybe look at a certified pre-owned option), or are you in the right time frame (maybe hold off on the purchase until you can save up money).

Thanks for the long reply! Yes, I wouldn't have minded at all if they simply explained their situation to me in a professional way. I was just put off by what response I did get. As far as credit and everything goes, I already had a loan with a great rate lined up and about 5-7k cash to put down, which I did tell them when we were talking. So no worries on that front.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A quick glance through Autotrader shows many used 2013s selling for (well asking for)$17 to $19K in Illinois so $24K all in for a new 16 seems like a pretty square deal. Nothing wrong with asking for a lesser price but no need to get bent out of shape when they say no.
We do not know the other side of the story here so it is hard to say if the dealer was unprofessional or not but I don't get why people seem to think of car sales people as subhuman in some manner. They can get upset by customers just as easily as any other person. They are also not all out to screw people over since it is their job to get the most they can from the customer. They are not there to do you favours or meet your every demand. I am not saying to walk in and plop down the sticker price but when people make statements like dealership "tricks" or "games" they need to remember that as the customer they are trying to play the game and are willing to use tricks as well. Yes, there are some bad sales people out there but there are probably 100 bad customers for every one of them. It is not the dealer's fault that they can/will not drop the price of a car to where you can afford it. It is your responsibility to be realistic in your expectations and find something within your budget.

Yeah, I know the car was a good deal, and I realized it would be more than most of the 17-19k used ones around here. I wasn't bent out of shape by the price or even the fact that they couldn't lower it, I was just bent out of shape by the way they treated me when I (politely) asked if we could talk about lowering it. I've only had a couple car buying experiences, but I've never bought a sports car so I made this thread because I also wondered if I was the one being offensive by asking for something like that, or if I was making a faux paux in the sports car world.

I'm not sure if I ticked something off for you and if I did I apologize, but I never felt these people were subhuman or anything crazy like that. I realize they're just people trying to make a living for their families too - I just felt like I was treated less than nice, and certainly not professionally when all I did was ask if there was any wiggle room in the price, is all. Even a simple "No, sorry" would have been ok with me, haha!

[Riftur]

It was a good price for a brand new FR-S. If they don't treat you right though I wouldn't give them my money.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Protege13

After my experience there I kind of wondered about that too... that there's a reason why it hasn't sold. I mean it seems like anyone interested in an FRS would be all over it. I know I was until we sat down to talk.



Thanks for the long reply! Yes, I wouldn't have minded at all if they simply explained their situation to me in a professional way. I was just put off by what response I did get. As far as credit and everything goes, I already had a loan with a great rate lined up and about 5-7k cash to put down, which I did tell them when we were talking. So no worries on that front.



Yeah, I know the car was a good deal, and I realized it would be more than most of the 17-19k used ones around here. I wasn't bent out of shape by the price or even the fact that they couldn't lower it, I was just bent out of shape by the way they treated me when I (politely) asked if we could talk about lowering it. I've only had a couple car buying experiences, but I've never bought a sports car so I made this thread because I also wondered if I was the one being offensive by asking for something like that, or if I was making a faux paux in the sports car world.

I'm not sure if I ticked something off for you and if I did I apologize, but I never felt these people were subhuman or anything crazy like that. I realize they're just people trying to make a living for their families too - I just felt like I was treated less than nice, and certainly not professionally when all I did was ask if there was any wiggle room in the price, is all. Even a simple "No, sorry" would have been ok with me, haha!

LOL not ticked off! Reads more stern than written and wasn't really directed just at you but people with that complaint in general. All is good. Just keep shopping and the perfect one will come up.

[86geek]

Originally Posted by Protege13

If it's meant to be it'll happen, otherwise there are plenty of other examples out there, even if used

As my late grandpa used to say, "The car will always be there!"
In other words waiting is key to the $$$ you wanna spend. Oh, and cause I wanted him to buy me a new toyota corolla SR5 liftback. Of course that didn't happen!

[Protege13]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

LOL not ticked off! Reads more stern than written and wasn't really directed just at you but people with that complaint in general. All is good. Just keep shopping and the perfect one will come up.

Gotcha. All is good! I figure the same thing. Eventually the right one will come my way.

Originally Posted by 86geek

As my late grandpa used to say, "The car will always be there!"
In other words waiting is key to the $$$ you wanna spend. Oh, and cause I wanted him to buy me a new toyota corolla SR5 liftback. Of course that didn't happen!

This is true! I'm not in a huge rush (yet) other than my excitement for getting into the FRS/BRZ itself

[extrashaky]

First, I would recommend a couple of books to prepare you for future negotiations (of any type):

Winning Through Intimidation by Robert Ringer. Contrary to the title, the book is not really about intimidating other people, but recognizing and defending against the tactics people use in everyday life to intimidate you.

You Can Negotiate Anything by Herb Cohen. Teaches you how to take the emotion of out negotiation. Cohen stresses coming to a mutually beneficial solution, which also means not getting taken advantage of.

From your account of your visit to the dealership, it seems to me that you fell victim to intimidation tactics by the dealership and let emotion affect your judgment. A car salesman is not really going to get upset about a counteroffer, even a ridiculous one. That was an intimidation tactic intended to make you feel guilty so that you would be more willing to capitulate. Bringing the finance guy in was both an intimidation tactic and a negotiation tactic. It was intimidation in that he was bringing in the "expert" whose "knowledge and experience" is far greater than yours, so you should just take his word for it. It was a negotiation tactic in that by bringing that guy in, the salesman was implying that what you wanted was out of his hands, and that he didn't have the authority to give it to you by himself. These are all ridiculously common tactics that people use all the time all around you.

If it wasn't the deal you wanted, you did the right thing by walking away. But you should have walked away amused at what they did, not upset or angry. When you recognize these tactics and don't allow them to affect you emotionally, they become entertaining and sometimes even comical. (My job involves auditing attorneys who occasionally try to intimidate me, and I find that shit hilarious.) When you know what they're doing, it can actually tell you a lot about how much they want to sell you the car, and that knowledge actually shifts negotiating power to you.

Since you did walk away, you're probably in a good position to turn this around to your advantage. You were probably right in thinking they would like to sell that car before the end of the year. Car dealerships and individual salesman are much more motivated to deal at the end of the month when quotas are due for incentives. But that date is more than a week away, and they're not desperate yet.

If it were me, I'd decide two numbers: What I would like to pay for the car and what I would be willing to pay. Or, to put it another way, your target cost and the cost above which you'll walk away. Then I would wait a few days until it's closer to the end of the month, drop back by and ask the salesman if they were willing to budge at all on their out-the-door price. The worst that can happen is that they say no. If they start the intimidation game again, just allow it to slide over you and let yourself be amused by it.

If they won't meet your walk-away price, leave again and stop back by on the last day of the month. If they have already met their sales quotas by then, they will no longer have as much incentive to deal. But if they haven't met their goals, they will desperately want to sell you that car. You'll have to be ready to buy the car that day or walk away, though, because January 1 resets the clock on their quotas.

Just have fun with it. It takes all the stress out of the process if you educate yourself and are able to get some entertainment out of their tactics.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by FX86

that's a racist question

Nope, just curious what the exterior color was. Manuals tend to be more desirable then autos. Color also matters ( pearl white tends to be higher demand, and the orange is harder to find the all of the other standard colors.

The last poster said it right! Wait until the 30th, or 31st....see if they are willing to take your realistic lowest offer.

I'm done buying cars...in my lifetime ( I only drive about 10k miles per year...do the math). My FR-s purchase was the last, and as long as nothing ever major happens to the car (ie. Accident ) , then i'll be rolling with it 15-20 yrs from now ( plus I have another car to supplement miles driven, the next 4-6 years...maybe longer)

[FX86]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Nope, just curious what the exterior color was. Manuals tend to be more desirable then autos. Color also matters ( pearl white tends to be higher demand, and the orange is harder to find the all of the other standard colors.

The last poster said it right! Wait until the 30th, or 31st....see if they are willing to take your realistic lowest offer.

I'm done buying cars...in my lifetime ( I only drive about 10k miles per year...do the math). My FR-s purchase was the last, and as long as nothing ever major happens to the car (ie. Accident ) , then i'll be rolling with it 15-20 yrs from now ( plus I have another car to supplement miles driven, the next 4-6 years...maybe longer)

I was just messin with ya...i don't post anything around here that contributes something to this forum...just a bunch of shit posting

[Simplicity]

24k for a brand new 16' car?... Dude I payed 32k for mine OTD, pear white, manual. I'm in California. That's a heck of a deal...

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[Protege13]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

24k for a brand new 16' car?... Dude I payed 32k for mine OTD, pear white, manual. I'm in California. That's a heck of a deal...

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

When did you buy? If you don't mind me asking

[geezerbrzeezer]

It seems like a good deal, providing you don't suddenly get hit with a bunch of extras when closing.

There's a dollar point at which the transaction doesn't make business sense for them. If you ask, and they won't come down any further as time passes, the rest is up to you. I feel that most people drive away with a new car wondering if they paid too much, and the answer to that question is all over the map.

Do some math on it - as an example, saving $500 over a five year term is around ten bucks a month. Is that what would make or break the deal for you? Sometimes butting heads is more about pride than dollars.

I've always bargained hard in the past and done well, but with the BRZ the dealership dictated the terms. Very little movement on the price, and up the ass on the trade.

Did I like the deal? No, it made me sick to my stomach. Do I love my BRZ? An emphatic yes! Sometimes if you want something badly enough, the transaction is dictated by supply, demand, and emotion.

The other factor - if this is going to be your servicing dealer, you'll want to establish a good rapport with them so your not known as 'that prick' when you roll in for service. I'm not saying bend over, but compromise can do wonders.

Or, do you feel they are smarmy enough that you wouldn't even want to purchase or have your new car serviced there?

There are other things at play here than just bottom line dollar amounts