Next Gen Gt 86 confirmed!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by HKz

I guess Honda and Nissan apparently care more about their halo cars

OK

[HKz]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Nissan is owned by Renault (French, and don't believe the "alliance/partnership" terminology often used), so the reborn GT-R's roots don't really tie 100% with those that ended with the R34 Skyline GT-R.

Fiat-Chrysler partnered up with Mazda to use their chassis, and that's about it, to develop their 124 Spider. Suspension and powertrain in them are FCAs own recipe, so it's not just a skin deep difference between the ND MX-5 and the 124. If they didn't insist that Alfas only be built in Italy, we'd have an Alfa variant that'd put the MX-5 squarely in the middle of the trio, too.

Good things do come of development partnerships. We go the Twins out of it, and I'm sure that conversation went a lot like "build this car we designed for us, make us an engine for it, and we'll let you make and sell your own version". The "we own part of you" part went without saying.

Regardless of the ownership by Renault the R35 was never going to completely tie into the R34 after such a hiatus..but still, the R35 platform is separate from any Nissan models and became just as loved/hated as the R34..still, Renault/Nissan had the balls to come out with it on their own especially right before the recession.

The 124 Spider, again, is a touch laughable. Reviewers love to call it Italian but we all know that is quite pretentious. What makes the the twins different and more of a success is that mechanically there are no differences, Toyota and Subaru came together to give us their one and only intended outcome. What the 124 Spider and this supposed Supra successor are doing is taking another company's platform/chassis and adjusting it to fit their consumer. For economy cars this makes sense, but for niche cars that are purchased for their dynamics it cheapens the image and arguably makes the car worse like in the case of the 124 Spider vs Miata where every reviewer has preferred the Miata...who would want this happening to the "Supra" yet apparently we're getting a roadster platform/chassis for a coupe..yay?

I'll be very happy to be proven wrong but until then this is turning out to be very meh after getting hyped up about the FT1.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

OK

yes, the LFA, my personal favorite, is appropriate but it still doesn't mean Toyota can't have another more accessible halo car.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by HKz

What makes the the twins different and more of a success is that mechanically there are no differences, Toyota and Subaru came together to give us their one and only intended outcome. What the 124 Spider and this supposed Supra successor are doing is taking another company's platform/chassis and adjusting it to fit their consumer.

lmao, dude the 86 is a warped Impreza with RWD.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

lmao, dude the 86 is a warped Impreza with RWD.

I know, and that's awesome.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I know, and that's awesome.

Oh, I totally agree and don't mean it in a bad way. (I was just bragging about how long the rotors last in this thing despite the beating I've tried to give them, and they're cheap as fuck too)

This car isn't some holistic miracle delivered to us from on high Toyota engineers that fooled the bean counters.

Or whatever metaphor is in vogue now.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by HKz

yes, the LFA, my personal favorite, is appropriate but it still doesn't mean Toyota can't have another more accessible halo car.

The NSX is like 160k right? Not very accessible in my opinion.


The MKV Supra should be no more than 60k starting price I would think.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The NSX is like 160k right? Not very accessible in my opinion.


The MKV Supra should be no more than 60k starting price I would think.

Z4 starts at $50k right now, the odds are good whatever the Toyota ends up being will be in the ballpark.

You'll probably have to swallow a 4-banger, but the B48 is good for 250+whp, not too shabby if it's not too fat, and it sounds pretty decent.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by HKz

yes, the LFA, my personal favorite, is appropriate but it still doesn't mean Toyota can't have another more accessible halo car.

Uh...if the expected pricetag is to be believed, the Supra will indeed be more accessible than the halos you mentioned from Nissan and Honda.

So it's ok for Renault and Nissan to come together, and Toyota and Subaru, but not Toyota and BMW, or Toyota and Lotus, pairing platforms and powerplants from each other to make something special. Got it. That's a really crooked measuring stick. You might surprise yourself if you dig around and find out how many companies have collaborated (and how they have) throughout the years of the history of automobiles to produce some cars that a lot of people really like, whether they know about the relations or not.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

lmao, dude the 86 is a warped Impreza with RWD.

your point? still doesn't change that both Toyota and Subaru are giving us the same final product they developed together.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The NSX is like 160k right? Not very accessible in my opinion.


The MKV Supra should be no more than 60k starting price I would think.

You're right, it isn't very accessible but it certainly isn't at the price point of the $375 K/$445 K LFA.

Sure, being priced around the Corvette would be awesome but it wouldn't upset/surprise me if the Supra joined the GTR/NSX in the $100 K range.

Originally Posted by Overdrive

Uh...if the expected pricetag is to be believed, the Supra will indeed be more accessible than the halos you mentioned from Nissan and Honda.

So it's ok for Renault and Nissan to come together, and Toyota and Subaru, but not Toyota and BMW, or Toyota and Lotus, pairing platforms and powerplants from each other to make something special. Got it. That's a really crooked measuring stick. You might surprise yourself if you dig around and find out how many companies have collaborated (and how they have) throughout the years of the history of automobiles to produce some cars that a lot of people really like, whether they know about the relations or not.

I know how to use the intrawebz..I recognize how many collabs have been made..but no collabs are ever alike...if BMW and Toyota are making a separate chassis/platform together that is one thing, but again my main issue is that this is turning into another Miata/124 Spider where Toyota is Fiat and they are inheriting reliability/running costs of a BMW. I can't get excited about that, shoot me

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by HKz

your point? still doesn't change that both Toyota and Subaru are giving us the same final product they developed together.



I know how to use the intrawebz..I recognize how many collabs have been made..but no collabs are ever alike...if BMW and Toyota are making a separate chassis/platform together that is one thing, but again my main issue is that this is turning into another Miata/124 Spider where Toyota is Fiat and they are inheriting reliability/running costs of a BMW. I can't get excited about that, shoot me

Not at all deserving to be shot. I get what you're saying, but until the final product lands, any BMW inheritances and how much of this is really solely in their hands is just high speculation. It's kinda unhealthy to get so worked up about something only to find out it didn't turn out the way anyone was worrying about after all. I'm keeping a positive mindset here because I really don't think Toyota would do something to shoot themselves in the foot with a car and name this important to their history/mythos in the way that Honda did with the "meh" that is the new NSX.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by HKz

your point? still doesn't change that both Toyota and Subaru are giving us the same final product they developed together.

And BMW/Toyota aren't?

[Overdrive]

As for delivering the same product, people often gave GM hell for badge engineering the Camaro and Firebird in very much the same way Toyota and Subaru are with the 86/BRZ. The 86 is the Camaro, and the BRZ is the slightly different sheet metal'd, slightly more upscale inside, and few thousand dollars more Firebird. It's really an eye of the beholder thing. Some people like that they're virtually the same. Some people wish they had more differences between them.

[goldenfri]

More rumors...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-future-doubt/

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by goldenfri

More rumors...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-future-doubt/

lol

"We could do A, could do B, idk"

Great article.