What's blocking me when I downshift from 6th to 4th

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

I had dealer flush my trans. Helped a ton.

Well now, Packofcrows, that may have worked for you ....... however, IMHO there is no reason to change the oil in this MT for several 10s of thousands of miles.

Ohhhhh........I don't mean to start up this debate again ......


humfrz

[gravitylover]

I think that 4 and 6 use the same syncros so you need to spin them or rev match before it will slide in. Your feeling of being blocked out is pretty much what's happening. User error.

[ToySub1946]

This car has a wimpy engine with basically no torque, needs high rpms.

Any driving rpm under 2500 is useless...even on a level road.


I do understand wanting to downshift from 6th to 4th.

Some months ago I was driving at about 50-60mph in 6th gear, wanted to pass a car on a two lane. Downshifted from 6th to 5th and almost got killed trying to pass. Ever since then I downshift from 6th to 4th at those speeds...if I need the power.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by cat94

It's completely stock and only about a month old. Also my first manual transmission so I may not know what's normal and what's not.

It's a similar feeling to when you try to put it in gear without the clutch depressed. It's like something is stopping me from doing something I shouldn't be doing. I guess I could just not be lazy and shift into 5th then 4th heh

1. It's brand new. I've said it many times that the synchros in mine didn't start grabbing effectively until about 8K miles and kept improving over the next several thousand.

2. Unless you're very comfortable double clutching, don't skip gates downshifting. Spread the work of spinning up the input shaft across all the gears evenly.

3. At 60 mph, fourth gear puts you in the flat spot of the hp curve. Don't be afraid of dropping into third. Wring that bitch out.

4. When at highway speed, practice downshifting into 4th and 3rd. Note the engine RPM. Then, if you choose to double clutch, get your input shaft spun up above that speed. That way, the input side will sink into the target gear.

[cat94]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I regularly cruise at 2k rpms, the engine is fine there but won't enjoy accelerating. Hence the downshift.

How many miles are on the car OP? imo the transmission takes awhile to break in, you've got a brand new car, it'll get easier and you'll figure out how to get a smooth shift out of it. Transmission also works better when it's up to temp, that may play a part in it, for a Californian there's no reason to wait for the car to warm up.

Edit: I did a trans fluid change at 30k miles, no appreciable difference going to Motul 300.

And the answer to the OP's question which nobody answered yet is "synchros"

Just under 2k miles.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

1. It's brand new. I've said it many times that the synchros in mine didn't start grabbing effectively until about 8K miles and kept improving over the next several thousand.

2. Unless you're very comfortable double clutching, don't skip gates downshifting. Spread the work of spinning up the input shaft across all the gears evenly.

3. At 60 mph, fourth gear puts you in the flat spot of the hp curve. Don't be afraid of dropping into third. Wring that bitch out.

4. When at highway speed, practice downshifting into 4th and 3rd. Note the engine RPM. Then, if you choose to double clutch, get your input shaft spun up above that speed. That way, the input side will sink into the target gear.

I'll stick to the simple things for now, but for an effective double clutch, do I have blip the throttle with the clutch completely released?

[Tokay444]

OP, are you rev matching these down shifts?
I shift from 6th to 4th a lot, especially on the highway when I pull out to pass someone, but I can't say I've ever done it without rev matching. I can't imagine the car being too happy about it without a throttle blip.
Edit: I just went out and tried it without a throttle blip. Worked just fine.
Are you jamming the gate?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by cat94

I'll stick to the simple things for now, but for an effective double clutch, do I have blip the throttle with the clutch completely released?

It's not a double clutch if you don't.

[LotsaMiles]

I shift from 6th to 4th all the time in the short passing zones on all these KY twisties on my daily commute. Never had an issue. Maybe 110k miles have loosened it up or something.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LotsaMiles

I shift from 6th to 4th all the time in the short passing zones on all these KY twisties on my daily commute. Never had an issue. Maybe 110k miles have loosened it up or something.

As discussed earlier in the thread there is nothing wrong with the two gear downshift and there are certainly times when it is needed. Cat just isn't there yet with his experience and may very well be driving at revs and in situations where it just isn't required.

[RichardsFRS]

I find hat shifting from 6th to fith is a little notchy, however if i shift out of 6 then watch the revs and shift to fourth I have no problems.

[cat94]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

OP, are you rev matching these down shifts?
I shift from 6th to 4th a lot, especially on the highway when I pull out to pass someone, but I can't say I've ever done it without rev matching. I can't imagine the car being too happy about it without a throttle blip.
Edit: I just went out and tried it without a throttle blip. Worked just fine.
Are you jamming the gate?

Yes, I did rev match and the ride is very smooth. Just going down into 4th had a slight blocking before slipping into the gear. It didn't take much force to get it in there and the rest of the shift-action was smooth.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

As discussed earlier in the thread there is nothing wrong with the two gear downshift and there are certainly times when it is needed. Cat just isn't there yet with his experience and may very well be driving at revs and in situations where it just isn't required.

Sounds about right to me. I'm just trying to get an insight into what to and not to do/how to do things correctly.

[PandaSPUR]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

As discussed earlier in the thread there is nothing wrong with the two gear downshift and there are certainly times when it is needed. Cat just isn't there yet with his experience and may very well be driving at revs and in situations where it just isn't required.

+1 I've done 6th to 4th a few times on the highway. 4th to 2nd sometimes when exiting the highway. etc etc.

The transmission is definitely a bit rough and notchy. It'll get better over time. Not sure if fluid change helps or not, I changed to Motul around 4k miles and I think it helped. A heavy shift knob also makes it feel better.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by cat94

Does anyone know whats going on?

How are you gripping the shifter?

I would say you are hitting the gate.

If I try to grab the shifter in my palm and drag it out of gear, then move it to the lower gear, I usually get a very vague feeling and lose where I am. I would say that is true with any gear. The exception to this is anything down to 2nd because of its location.

I don't know how the '17s are, but if I want to do a 6>4, I would push it out of gear with my palm, let it center itself, then with my pointer, middle and ring finger, just apply moderate pressure on the front of the shifter and it should slip right into 4th.

Now, I have a 2013 with 41K miles. When I tested a new 2016, the shifter was tough as all hell. It'll loosen up. But, the 2017s have some transmission changes, so maybe what you are experiencing is the new normal.

Basically, just let the transmission do more for you.

[cat94]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

How are you gripping the shifter?

I would say you are hitting the gate.

If I try to grab the shifter in my palm and drag it out of gear, then move it to the lower gear, I usually get a very vague feeling and lose where I am. I would say that is true with any gear. The exception to this is anything down to 2nd because of its location.

I don't know how the '17s are, but if I want to do a 6>4, I would push it out of gear with my palm, let it center itself, then with my pointer, middle and ring finger, just apply moderate pressure on the front of the shifter and it should slip right into 4th.

Now, I have a 2013 with 41K miles. When I tested a new 2016, the shifter was tough as all hell. It'll loosen up. But, the 2017s have some transmission changes, so maybe what you are experiencing is the new normal.

Basically, just let the transmission do more for you.

I push straight up into neutral, then straight down letting the knob self center. I'll give it another shot on the freeway at higher rpms. And see if I still get a similar feeling