Concerning thoughts...FR-S the new Civic?

[rice_classic]

Disclaimer: post below is all opinion with nothing, absolutely nothing based in fact or reality.

What I want to know is what will the tipping point be. The civic's had to be out for a number of years and reach a certain point in resale value in which they gained that hyper-popularity with affordability and the aftermarket support flourished. At that point, finding one that is stock and kept in good shape is pretty rare.

The AP1 S2000 hit that tipping point around 2008-2009. The price to buy a used AP1 fell low enough that any Joe Schmoe could buy one and "make it look sick dawg!" With the aftermarket support being massive and affordable pretty soon it's difficult to find one for sale by private owner that isn't modified in some way and most mods are done very poorly (ie: hella flush yo!).

The Civic "jumped the shark" regarding OEM to massively modified the weekend Fast and Furious was released. The AP1 jumped its shark in '08/'09 and the AP2 shortly after that. Sure, with some reasonable searching you can find an unmodified S2k for sale BUT, as I see them around town more of them are modified then are not and once that point happens for me they will be considered "long in the tooth."

Now back to the FRS/BRZ: Unlike the engineers at Honda/Acura (s2k/nsx), the Toyota/Subaru engineers built this car with the idea of modification from day 1. Thus, the Toyobaru will appear to fit into the "Jumped the shark" analogy regarding mods relatively early but it won't be the case because unlike the Civic/S2k/NSX, the Toyobaru was meant for mods. The entire Scion mantra is "individuality" for goodness sake. Many Toyobarus will be modified before they're even broken in.

So, if a lot are sold or not, it doesn't matter. I think we'll see the majority of them get modded very early on and this will artificially affect the resale value because people buying a used one have the opinion (and fairly so) that a modded car is worth less money. I don't think this perceived resale value will reflect the quality of the car and I anticipate that those selling their cars in 4-5 years in completely OEM form will be able to sell it at premium for 2 reasons. 1: Unmodified typically demands a higher price in the used car market then a modified car and 2: Many people buying a used one will want to mod it and thus will pay a premium for a "clean slate".

As someone who has modified his street cars in the past I can say this... I don't want to pay for your mods.


And now insert the exception to the rule:
Factory Mods

If a car has the factory mods done by the dealer and they are still covered by warranty then this may minimize the negative effect on price at time of sale or maybe even increase it. If one were to an all OEM FRS for sale with the exception of some factory installed TRD options then it might demand a greater value on the used market.

Long story short: The Toyobaru will not be like the Civic. From a numbers standpoint that won't happen. If anything it will be like the Datsun Z car, the Mazda Miata or the S2000. Maybe the BRZ will be most like the Miata, it seems to have that Mazda smile on the front of it with the 1970's Mustache.

[Bonburner]

Originally Posted by Pbrown

There are many reasons why this will not be a mass seller.

it's sporty
It takes premium fuel
It is rear wheel drive
it has limited cargo space
it is a three seater at best.
Insurance rates are increased.
Not cheap enough for the masses
Not enough perceived horsepower for the straight line guys.

This car is definately a niche vehicle. And I love being in the niche.

I never wanted to get a car that was common on the streets, but the FRS was just too good.
I know its going to be a popular car, but it will be well known Why its popular, its just damn good haha.

[Razz]

The new Civic SI is 24,845

Same price range
more HP
more torque
better interior quality
working navigation
reliable engine



It is very comparable and is a much better deal for most people

So the FRS and BRZ can become the new civic

[Mpowered]

Originally Posted by Razz

The new Civic SI is 24,845

Same price range
more HP
more torque
better interior quality
working navigation
reliable engine



It is very comparable and is a much better deal for most people

So the FRS and BRZ can become the new civic

Base line Civic starts at 15K and change. The SI is considerably higher, and also lower production.

You could make the argument that the FRS and the BRZ can become the new Civic SI, but it absolutely won't become the new Civic. Even then, the Civic SI can seat 4 while the BRZ can really only seat 2. I think that absolutely kills the FRS/BRZ's mass market appeal, and puts it squarely in the toy category.

[dori.]

once it gets cheap enough it'll be the new 240sx

[Linseal]

Originally Posted by dori.

once it gets cheap enough it'll be the new 240sx

This

[Shagaliscious]

Don't care. I drive a Civic Si right now, sure it's not a common year for the Si, but everyone still sees it as a Civic, so I get a bunch of idiots on the road that want to race, whatever. I love the car, don't care what anyone else thinks.

[R8]

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious

I drive a Civic Si right now... I love the car, don't care what anyone else thinks.

Excellent! It's such a cool car, in all it's generations. Nothing else quite like it

[empower-auto]

Originally Posted by R8

Excellent! It's such a cool car, in all it's generations.

EM1/EM2.

[Shagaliscious]

Originally Posted by R8

Excellent! It's such a cool car, in all it's generations. Nothing else quite like it

Damn straight, one of the greatest FF's ever made. I don't see it being a bad thing being associated with it, I mean, it does have an enormous amount of aftermarket support, surely that would be something we all want for the FR-S.

BTW, do you live in Philly, or one of the suburbs? I am about 30 min. from the city.

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by Mpowered

Base line Civic starts at 15K and change. The SI is considerably higher, and also lower production.

You could make the argument that the FRS and the BRZ can become the new Civic SI, but it absolutely won't become the new Civic. Even then, the Civic SI can seat 4 while the BRZ can really only seat 2. I think that absolutely kills the FRS/BRZ's mass market appeal, and puts it squarely in the toy category.

I would agree with this. I can see the FRS/BRZ being as common and the Civic Si or even the Miata

[*KID*]

as long as I have my red FRS and say Im one of the first ones in my city to own one, Im happy, I can just say "dude why did you copy me" lol

[R8]

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious

BTW, do you live in Philly, or one of the suburbs? I am about 30 min. from the city.

Suburbs, other direction Near Lambertville/New Hope area. Still small world though! <waves to almost neighbor>.

[csaba]

Originally Posted by mezdup

My understanding is that the BRZ and FR-S are limited production. That being said, it definitely has the potential in that it's relatively affordable and highly customizable but I don't think any car is going to take the civic's place.

Lastly though, who cares? I love my FR-S.

Sent from HTC Rezound using Tapatalk 2

Some of this threads are killing me !! "the FR-S is the new civic " who give a damn rat a$$$!!